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+---- Thread: cogblap v0.98 | beta testing will be happening occasionally (/showthread.php?tid=221)
Re: cogmap // v0.93 - current code update - UrsulaMejor - 01-24-2013
if bomb making is removed, it will render useless 80% of everything I have ever done in the game. I have spent many a late hour experimenting with mixes and tanks and valves and welders and sheets and irl notebooks on the subject. I will be very sad ):
on the other hand, this new setup looks kindof exciting. it looks like it'd make a lot of the experiments I've been trying to do a lot easier to set up.
I'm torn. will canister bombs use the same physics, only bigger and more bulky? if so, I think I can adapt my experiments to working with them, but nonetheless, I hope you'll reconsider getting rid of transfer bombs completely (maybe a job-specific traitor item for the RD? 3 crystals a pop?)
Re: cogmap // v0.93 - current code update - Klayboxx - 01-24-2013
UrsulaMejor Wrote:if bomb making is removed, it will render useless 80% of everything I have ever done in the game. I have spent many a late hour experimenting with mixes and tanks and valves and welders and sheets and irl notebooks on the subject. I will be very sad ):
on the other hand, this new setup looks kindof exciting. it looks like it'd make a lot of the experiments I've been trying to do a lot easier to set up.
I'm torn. will canister bombs use the same physics, only bigger and more bulky? if so, I think I can adapt my experiments to working with them, but nonetheless, I hope you'll reconsider getting rid of transfer bombs completely (maybe a job-specific traitor item for the RD? 3 crystals a pop?)
Dude I was joking. He is just saying you can do nerd shit instead of making explosives if you want
Re: cogmap // v0.93 - current code update - UrsulaMejor - 01-24-2013
Klayboxx Wrote:he's been talking about removing then for the last week or two, so your statement seemed completely believableUrsulaMejor Wrote:if bomb making is removed, it will render useless 80% of everything I have ever done in the game. I have spent many a late hour experimenting with mixes and tanks and valves and welders and sheets and irl notebooks on the subject. I will be very sad ):
on the other hand, this new setup looks kindof exciting. it looks like it'd make a lot of the experiments I've been trying to do a lot easier to set up.
I'm torn. will canister bombs use the same physics, only bigger and more bulky? if so, I think I can adapt my experiments to working with them, but nonetheless, I hope you'll reconsider getting rid of transfer bombs completely (maybe a job-specific traitor item for the RD? 3 crystals a pop?)
Dude I was joking. He is just saying you can do nerd shit instead of making explosives if you want
Re: cogmap // v0.93 - current code update - Cogwerks - 01-24-2013
The hell are you going on about? I'm not removing transfer bombs, all I said in IRC was that I thought they were kinda stupid. I want to give the toxins lab more stuff to do in ADDITION to bombs. Actual gas research.
Re: cogmap // v0.93 - current code update - FrontlineAcrobat4 - 01-24-2013
Considering the fact the only thing we actually use the plasma tanks for is making bombs and starting plasma fires to kill everyone with, we really need actual other reasons why we have them, I mean isn't this station a plasma research station or some shit?
Re: cogmap // v0.93 - current code update - Cogwerks - 01-24-2013
Precisely. There is a ton of weird shit plasma will do in the new engine, so I'm trying to change the layout of toxins a bit so it's more about supplying information and experimental mixtures to the engineers.
Bombs will still be entirely possible and in some ways even better, but that'll be portrayed more as a side-effect of plasma research instead of the sole purpose.
That said, when I get around to implementing canister bombs... transfer valves might get a revisit then. Maybe with a baseball bat. Maybe. Maybe not.
Re: cogmap // v0.93 - current code update - enforcer9 - 01-24-2013
mozi Wrote:I see that there is a door between the two mixing chambers. If one is full of hot plasma and one is full of oxygen and you open the door, uh, do bad things happenI approve of this, roombombs must be incorporated into cogstation.
Re: cogmap // v0.93 - current code update - Klayboxx - 01-24-2013
"Hey uh, does it smell funny to you in here Pubbles?"
"Yeah it kinda smells like that plasma shit, think we should report it?"
"Nah, do you even know how much fuckin' paper work we would have to fill out for a plasma leak? That shit ain't worth it."
enter Traitor Joe
"Hey guys! Want a smoke?"
boom
Re: cogmap // v0.93 - current code update - atomic1fire - 01-24-2013
I figure if anything the bomb guys will be the first person to ask about plasma mixtures, if big explosions also means big electrical gains.
Re: cogmap // v0.93 - current code update - I-Sett - 01-24-2013
What I've always hoped for on the bombs is: Chemical Warfare.
Igniter/beaker assemblies are all well and good but put out a pitiful amount of smoke and the delay smoke produces makes them only really useful against braindead targets for the most part.
Tank-Transfer Bombs are of impressive size (especially the 11x11 02 tank handmade kind), but only useful for complete obliteration of area.
I'd like to see a combination of this. Add a few specific chemicals in precise amounts: Radium 'Dirty' bombs, Flashpowder concussive bombs (Large flashbang with limited destructive capacity, and a medium length blindness, akin to wizard Blind), Sleeping Tox. bombs (limited effect compared to an injection).
Just a quick two cents.
That said I'm so glad smoke can carry three chemicals now, Thalmerite/thermite/Weldingfuel smoke is golden.
Re: cogmap // v0.93 - current code update - kyle2143 - 01-24-2013
Cogwerks Wrote:Here's some work on trying to make new Toxins feel more like a gas research area and less like a bomb lab
Gonna try to get a control program going to log gas sensor readings from inside the chambers, so you can start an experiment and have a recording of how the gas composition changed over time.
Instead of trying to make it feel more like gas research instead of a bomb lab, why make it so there are other uses for it than making bombs? So that actually conducting research could benefit the station. Perhaps it could be made to generate some power for the station if it gets hot enough or enough pressure is built up inside. I kind of have always been disappointed with how toxins was, I mean the station is technically a plasma research station, but the only research with done with plasma is to make bombs. My suggestions are usually awful so I'll leave it at that, but your ideas sound like they will be a good improvement.
Re: cogmap // v0.93 - current code update - atomic1fire - 01-24-2013
I think it would be kind of cool to modify a weilding fuel tank into a explosive, e.g timer, some wires, maybe a activator like a radio or a proximity sensor.
Re: cogmap // v0.93 - current code update - BlackPhoenix - 01-24-2013
Alright, none of these are likely good ideas, but here goes:
Make Plasma Research check for the random traits of the plasma that the station was delivered in this shift's shipment, such as speed of burning, heat of burning, toxicity, particle size (Small enough particles would be able to penetrate breath masks but not space helmets or regular gas masks), spreading speed, etcetera. These could, from what I know, be set to randomize within a range of numbers.
Make Plasma Research integral to getting the best engineering mixes. Give them some basic supplies to get a decent mix going, but if Research doesn't get to work mixing gasses into better and better mixes, the engine won't last too long. Maybe certain mixes give lower but more sustained power, while you can make some that will flash and burn out incredibly quickly but send a massive jolt through the system for emergency situations. This is probably already a thing.
Make Plasma somehow react to smoke that contacts it in the air, and give the room a mounted fog machine to feed chems into to test this. Maybe one round, tricord smoke hitting plasma makes it heal anyone in it instead of poison them. The next, it might cause burn damage for some reason. Fuck realism, this is a spaceman game. This would obviously be interesting for both traitor and helpful scientists, though it'd probably be a pain in the ass to code, if it were possible at all. This is just one of those "Damn that'd be neat but unlikely" ideas.
Re: cogmap // v0.93 - current code update - Cogwerks - 01-24-2013
kyle2143 Wrote:Instead of trying to make it feel more like gas research instead of a bomb lab, why make it so there are other uses for it than making bombs? So that actually conducting research could benefit the station. Perhaps it could be made to generate some power for the station if it gets hot enough or enough pressure is built up inside. I kind of have always been disappointed with how toxins was, I mean the station is technically a plasma research station, but the only research with done with plasma is to make bombs. My suggestions are usually awful so I'll leave it at that, but your ideas sound like they will be a good improvement.
The point of this stuff is that plasma can be used to great effect in the new engine, I posted that on the SA thread but I guess I forgot to write that here.
Toxins researchers can research how gases react to eachother, what generates a lot of heat, what generates a lot of pressure, etc and then deliver both information and gas canisters to the engineers. The new engine can generate absolutely ludicrous levels of power if you cooperate with the Toxins staff or apply that knowledge the right way, but the margin of safety is very narrow.
You have to know how your gas mixtures are going to behave and plan around it.
BlackPhoenix Wrote:Make Plasma Research integral to getting the best engineering mixes. Give them some basic supplies to get a decent mix going, but if Research doesn't get to work mixing gasses into better and better mixes, the engine won't last too long. Maybe certain mixes give lower but more sustained power, while you can make some that will flash and burn out incredibly quickly but send a massive jolt through the system for emergency situations. This is probably already a thing.
All of this happens already. There are a ton of ways to configure the new engine and your gas mixtures for the combustion chamber and coolant pipes are both super important. Different configurations can have wildly different effects. Really shitty mixes won't make any power, some experimental mixes can generate significant power at room temperature, some will run nice and safely for a long time with no maintenance, and some arrangements are so finicky that the threshold between enormous power output and the destruction of the engineering sector are razor thin.
The engineers have a limited amount of gases to start with. If they want more, they'll have to ask the Toxins lab for prepared combustibles and/or coolant mixtures, or pester the QMs or Miners to get more fuel that way. Or start feeding corpses and junk into the engine.
To really unlock the full potential of the new engine, both as a power source and as a hilariously lethal weapon, you have to be fairly good at bomb science or work with someone who is.
Re: cogmap // v0.93 - current code update - BlackPhoenix - 01-24-2013
Any chance on my first suggestion also being a thing? Having plasma act somewhat differently on a round to round basis would both cover why a station needs to exist to research something like that (We get it, it burns and poisons shit...can we go home now?) and spice up any uses for it, including things like emergency engine scenarios ("No, don't go in there like that!" "I'm wearing a firesuit, I'll be fine!" "But...it'll" and then the particles seep into his mask and he dies horrifically to poisons, screaming to be let out.)