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+--- Thread: [PR] Removes the ability to emag cyberogans with damage (/showthread.php?tid=21557)
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[PR] Removes the ability to emag cyberogans with damage - github_bot - 07-20-2023
PULL REQUEST DETAILS
[CONTROVERSIAL] [REMOVAL] [BALANCE] [INPUT WANTED] [MEDICAL]
About the PR
Removes the ability to emag cyberorgans by damaging them.
Why's this needed?
Emaged cyberorgans are extremely powerful for the required effort put into obtaining them. 15 minutes of work can get you power near the level of stimulants.
There arent many counters to a nerd running around with full emaged cyberorgans either. The only option is to grab pulse rifles from the armory.
Its fine for traitors to have this level of power but non-antag crew should have to use alternative strategies.
Changelog
Code:
changelog
(u)UnfunnyPerson
(+)Cyberogans can no longer be emaged through damage.PULL REQUEST DETAILS
RE: [PR] Removes the ability to emag cyberogans with damage - Lord_earthfire - 07-20-2023
Personally, i would wish an alternative that takes more time is introduced instead. I think once that is merged we can discuss alternatives that requires some more effort or are gated behind additional recources/other departments.
This will effectively lock out emmagged cyberorgans for non-traitor-antagonists.
RE: [PR] Removes the ability to emag cyberogans with damage - Frolicsome Flufficorn - 07-20-2023
all for it, Im in full support of this as a removed feature. Its sad, but put simply, on classic its become such a large issue. (also, I mean just saying why are we moaning about this being removed from non traitor antagonists? like thats like there being a way for non traitors to get a cloaker then when its removed people are like "uhhh why are we locking people out of getting a 6 TC item feature") (thats a bad example, since transparium exists, which is actually better then a cloaker since not even thermals work and you can use items while still invisible but thats besides the point)
RE: [PR] Removes the ability to emag cyberogans with damage - Lord_earthfire - 07-20-2023
(07-20-2023, 09:20 AM)Frolicsome Flufficorn Wrote: (also, I mean just saying why are we moaning about this being removed from non traitor antagonists? like thats like there being a way for non traitors to get a cloaker then when its removed people are like "uhhh why are we locking people out of getting a 6 TC item feature")
It's a personal gripe. Many interesting tools jobs offer to other antagonists kinda get the bullet because of non-antags overusing them on classic. And they get all concentrated on traitor, in this case even behind the effect of a whopping 6 TC item. Departments should offer a multitude tools that are questionable in a department, but extremly usefull for antags. Having that said, robotocists got still enough tools that are very usefull to antags (heavy limbs, cybereyes, threads), so it's not too bad.
RE: [PR] Removes the ability to emag cyberogans with damage - Thebutler - 07-20-2023
I like the fact that organs can be emaged with tools because it gives traitors more flexibility when it comes to gear which I think is a good thing
RE: [PR] Removes the ability to emag cyberogans with damage - TDHooligan - 07-20-2023
these did get enabled for non-antags because the features locked behind them are really interesting - perhaps some of the cooler features should be moved into the original organs (like cyberintestine adjusting) but given weaker 'safety thresholds' and mostly-full downsides (so theyre still viable replacements for folk who just got shot).
RE: [PR] Removes the ability to emag cyberogans with damage - DimWhat - 07-20-2023
Watching 2-3 people hop into medbay per round to load up on emagged cyberorgans via self surgery just kinda feels bad. I fully support this change.
RE: [PR] Removes the ability to emag cyberogans with damage - Dhaidburt - 07-21-2023
I don't play on classic, and while I like the idea of giving the roboticist a way to tinker with the organs I don't think it should be on the same level as traitor items. What's the point of breaking into cargo or medbay to get the organs, emag them and have them surgically implanted if some bozo with time on their hands and a stick can do the same with far less effort?
RE: [PR] Removes the ability to emag cyberogans with damage - babayetu83 - 07-21-2023
what does removing this feature add exactly?
RE: [PR] Removes the ability to emag cyberogans with damage - Mouse - 07-21-2023
(07-21-2023, 01:08 PM)babayetu83 Wrote: what does removing this feature add exactly?
I don't know, what does removing a feature that makes the most antisocial nerds around functionally unstunnable and unkillable add?
RE: [PR] Removes the ability to emag cyberogans with damage - babayetu83 - 07-21-2023
(07-21-2023, 07:15 PM)Mouse Wrote:(07-21-2023, 01:08 PM)babayetu83 Wrote: what does removing this feature add exactly?
I don't know, what does removing a feature that makes the most antisocial nerds around functionally unstunnable and unkillable add?
then they'll just move onto something else and a new pr will be submitted seeking to nerf/gut the next thing. treating symptoms isn't a good use of anybody's time
RE: [PR] Removes the ability to emag cyberogans with damage - CalliopeSoups - 07-22-2023
I think seeing the argument from either side in a "robust players will move on it doesn't matter" sense is missing the point. Nerds aren't evil or based entities looking to abuse stuff (most) they just highlight what's strong, which is useful.
Emagged organs are deserving of their spot in this PR I think because compared to other meta-strategies they're noticably stronger and passive in their effect, while not requiring player interaction despite involving heart surgery. With a beaker of lube or sorium you need to act to get the effect, with a full set of emagged organs you're now stronger than most by default. Paired with relatively minor downsides to having these organs along with the roundstart ritual nature of getting them, I think they're just a bit much.
RE: [PR] Removes the ability to emag cyberogans with damage - Kotlol - 07-22-2023
Easy downside.
Take the strongest cyber organs and give them a "tracking feature" and able to print trackers from the fabricator.
Now anyone with strong cyber organs will be trackable regardless of Emags.
Bad for antags who wanna hide.
Good for antags that wanna target cyber organ users.
Good for security tracking cyber organ users.
Good for players who die with cyber organs since their body can be tracked.
RE: [PR] Removes the ability to emag cyberogans with damage - Lord_earthfire - 07-22-2023
(07-22-2023, 04:37 AM)CalliopeSoups Wrote: I think seeing the argument from either side in a "robust players will move on it doesn't matter" sense is missing the point. Nerds aren't evil or based entities looking to abuse stuff (most) they just highlight what's strong, which is useful.
I think this isn't a discussion we should be opening here. We got two server rulesets and few but extremly significant mechanical differences between them which results in very different gameplay experiences. And both have very different requirements in their balance and game mechanical strenght due to this. One requires powerfull, work-intensive but varied tools, the other one requires a very equal-fielded powerlevel.
If we open a discussion about powergamers running stuff into the ground and if we should balance around their behaviour, we should maybe do this in its own dedicated thread.
But on-topic, like i said before, that is a valid emergency-fix, but we should afterwards brainstorm on how we enable robotocists to better support people. I am currently thinking about buffing synthorgans. They require interdepartmental cooperation, which should lock out most classic players from doing them every round. And botanists cannot easily transplant them because they are lacking tools.
RE: [PR] Removes the ability to emag cyberogans with damage - RichardGere - 07-22-2023
Non-antags have no business emagging organs without an emag, imo.