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+--- Thread: [CLOSED PR] Gives non secass sec anti mindhack, makes low hp disable anti mindhack... (/showthread.php?tid=20871)
[CLOSED PR] Gives non secass sec anti mindhack, makes low hp disable anti mindhack... - github_bot - 03-14-2023
PULL REQUEST DETAILS
About the PR
Alternate to #13365. Like #13365, every security member except secasses now recieves an anti mindhack implant. Unlike #13365 however, getting someone with an anti mindhack implant below 30 hp will allow you to mindhack them. This pr does two other changes to smooth this out as well.
People with anti mindhack implants that are above 30 hp will be unable to be implanted, this prevents you from wasting an implant on them. Getting implanted with a mindhack implant also injects you with cocktail of 15 omnizine, 10 synaptzine, 10 saline 10 salbutamol and 20 potassium iodide. This means that the secoff you just got into crit wont be in crit for much longer (this also intentionally adds a tactical element to mindhacks).
Why's this needed?
I think this is a much more interesting approach then #13365. This makes mindhacks synergize with traitors stealth and combat items much better as they make it easier to mindhack people. This also makes higher value target harder to mindhack because theyre harder to attack.
Changelog
Code:
changelog
(u)Ikea
(*)Nanotrasen has increased security by giving every security member whose not a security assistant an anti mindhack implant. To compensate the syndicate has updated their mindhacks to override anti mindhack implants when a person is under 30 health, and given them the ability to inject a healing mixture (15 omnizine, 10 synaptzine, 10 saline, 10 salbutamol and 20 potassium iodide) when injected into someone.PULL REQUEST DETAILS
RE: [PR] Gives non secass sec anti mindhack, makes low hp disable anti mindhack implants - Ikea - 03-14-2023
Currently my main issue with this pr is that outside of checking with the implant or prodocs it can be pretty unclear when someone crosses that 30 hp threshold. An idea I have to change this is with making you gasp upon entering crit and making the threshold be 0 hp, however since this is increasing the scope of this pr and I feel like this is borderline for freeze as is, I'd like a dev to go "feel free to add it to your pr" first.
RE: [PR] Gives non secass sec anti mindhack, makes low hp disable anti mindhack implants - DummySian - 03-14-2023
Implanter remover seems like a better approach than this.
Implanter remover makes it harder to combo a person with traitor gear and a secoff with stuns, since you have to remove officer's implant first (And you already know how powerful traitor gear and sec gear are together).Fighting an already powerful traitor and a person that can help them any time and that has stuns is already hard enough.
While you are talking about traitor gear and mindhack synergy, i think it's actually supposed to be harder to combo them.
Yeah sure, you can just kill an officer and take their gear but...I can say the exact thing about this PR as well.
Implanter remover also allows MORE things other than using it to hack officer, like removing health implants from both secoffs and normal crew so doctors wont get a health alert when you are killing someone. This PR aims specifically to only fixing a problem with mindhacking a secoff or hos, when implanter remover allows you to do many more things and also fixes some balance issues.
Implanter remover also does burn damage so i would totally inject people with a lot of implants and use it on them just for funnies
RE: [PR] Gives non secass sec anti mindhack, makes low hp disable anti mindhack implants - Wisemonster - 03-15-2023
My issue with this pr is that making the implants work based on current health is both unintuitive, and if it's a number that isn't crit, it'll appear to be arbitrary. Not to mention, once the sec off reaches crit, unless you have something to block the implant alert, the rest of sec will be on your ass.
RE: [PR] Gives non secass sec anti mindhack, makes low hp disable anti mindhack implants - Lord_earthfire - 03-15-2023
The problem with this PR is simply not being able to have a good indicator when someone is below the treshhold for the implant.
Besides, once you attack a sec member they will call sec on your ass. And once they see their alive companion they will just know they were mindhacked due to metagaming. This makes this essentially mindshields for sec. And only the HOS has these for a reason.
On RP that is a vaible solution. But on RP mindhacking sec was never an issue. So this fix will miss its mark.
RE: [PR] Gives non secass sec anti mindhack, makes low hp disable anti mindhack implants - Ikea - 03-15-2023
(03-14-2023, 09:35 PM)DummySian Wrote: Implanter remover makes it harder to combo a person with traitor gear and a secoff with stuns, since you have to remove officer's implant first (And you already know how powerful traitor gear and sec gear are together).Fighting an already powerful traitor and a person that can help them any time and that has stuns is already hard enough.
This is confusing because it sounds like its written from the secoffs perspective? Like this doesn't make removing mindhacks from people any harder, it wont really effect going against a traitor with a mindhacked secoff nor is it meant to? Also this pr makes it overall harder to mindhack a sec off as now you need to chip away 70 health instead of just stunning them.
(03-15-2023, 12:01 AM)Wisemonster Wrote: My issue with this pr is that making the implants work based on current health is both unintuitive, and if it's a number that isn't crit, it'll appear to be arbitrary.
I dont think this pr is unintuitive, you need to weaken there will in order for it to work. It's important to note that mindhacks will refuse to inject themselves if a person is anti mindhacked and high hp, and it will tell you that you need to weaken them in order for it to work
That being said I think the concern around the attacker not knowing when a person is below 30 hp is fair, currently you can use the mindhack implant to check but this feels eh. See my first comment for more details but I'd like to make it crit and make people give off an indicator when they enter crit, however that'll mean the sec health alert goes off which I dont like
(03-15-2023, 01:56 AM)Lord_earthfire Wrote: Besides, once you attack a sec member they will call sec on your ass. And once they see their alive companion they will just know they were mindhacked due to metagaming.
I think the calling sec on you isnt that big of a concern on classic, as honestly its rare for secoffs to reply and also theres many ways to stealthily take down a secoff (things like radbows). However the concern of seeing a secoff fine after sending off a crit indicator is fair, its something I was worried about as well. Currently there's 30 hp of wiggle room for them being mindhackable and them sending off an auto alert so currently I think its fineish, but further changes would need changes to the health alert