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+--- Thread: Respawn as a "Hologram" (/showthread.php?tid=20588)
Respawn as a "Hologram" - Kotlol - 01-25-2023
I once made this as a joke suggestion in questionable.. but now after reading how Goon 1 the players avoid antagonists to avoid dieing... thus causing apathy.
I think to fix it we should introduce a new way of dead players rejoining the game.
INTRODUCING! THE HOLOGRAM VERSION OF YOU!
NT's clever way of replacing dead staff in an emergency without cloning!
So how does it work?:
My idea behind this is simple. You sign up for a game as a job. You die... but you can't get cloned, but you want to get back as soon as possible.
So now insted of being possibly borged or Respawning.
You can give up any form of respawning to activate the Hologram of yourself.
Doing this makes a see through version of yourself appear, but.. you cannot interact with the living like a ghostdrone.
But you can do your job like a cyborg.
Yes you just get the tools like a cyborg to do your job as one.. without being one.
But... what if it's an antagonist or security?!
Security holograms cannot arrest and stun. If a security member dies and gets hologrammed, they can only "Holographic" mark off areas (Aka holographic security tape). Talk. Point out things, ticket people, set em to arrest and such.
As for antags. They become a "Glitchy Hologram" wich is basicly a clowny hologram that can just make noises and act weird. More a nuisance.. nothing different from a clown or mime hologram.
As for "flavor" jobs. They become staff assistant holograms, same outfit as their jobs, just the tools of staff assistants.
How does access work?
Despite being a hologram, you are bound by the rules of walls and doors and YOUR ACCES LEVEL. Wich cannot be changed. So unless you are an engineer hologram and hacking doors... you cannot get in.
A hologram gone rogue!! How do we stop it?
Same as cyborg, but they have the hologram matrix. If you missbehave as a hologram, the captain can "kill you" once your hologram is killed, no respawning as one till it has been "reactivated"
Holograms don't breathe, what if they go into space?
They "flicker" , becoming unable to do anything. You see the one thing that allows holograms to be holograms is one simple rule: "FLOORING"
If there is no FLOOR, they do not function anymore... the player has to move to a location with flooring to reactivate and be able to do anything.
Aka they gotta build bit by bit from the floor to continune one. (think like how Kudzu people worked)
I am an antagonist who wants no holograms, what do I do?
Shut off the holographic matrix or destroy it. Turning off the APC/giving no power doesn't work though.
You have to fuctionally do it yourself.
Functionalities:
Holograms clearly cannot be full on borgs, but specialized ones. They will follow their own uneditable lawrack. If they die and respawn as one, their job slot naturally opens up for somoene else to spawn into it... but there are several other functionalities they get and interactions they cannot do.
1: Cannot grab or interact with certain tools with <<Player charaters/NPCs>>
This is simply because...We don't want wraithful holograms. And you might think: But if a holograms of X job takes this tool they should be able to "stab a player"
No.. these items are the same as their job functionalities, but when used for other intentions it will just say: "Your photons cannot harm this organic life form"
Of course surgery holograms can cut if it's safe on a operating table, but the moment anything could "damage" players, it does 0 damage.
And of course holograms cannot grab or drag players as well as crates and such. Leave those to borgs.
2: 3 Arm functionality like borgs.
Well? Why not? You are basicly a "ghost borg" though your toolkit isn't based of the borg modules. Simply based on the job you taken.
3: Customsation!
I mean you can change your hue as a hologram... that's it.
4: PRESET JOB KITS!
As stated earlier...
Every job will have their own "hologram module" You cannot pick it.
Staff assistants have the most minimal kit.
And heads have their own set.
5: You are "Dead" and cannot talk
Holograms cannot "TALK" just use holographic modules similiar to the AI.
In conclusion:
Why do we need this? We don't really.. but ghostdrones are barely used and kinda suck...
So.. this will obiviously replace ghostdrones to some degree.
But I think it would just be a more fun way to stay in a round if you die and cannot be cloned/brought back.
It kinda sucks you are working on a huge project to die tragicly permanently and just go: "Welp thats my game"
Now you can spawn as a hologram and atleast finish the project... but you are basicly still "out of the round."
Though... some projects might be impossible as a hologram due to their restrictions.
Otherwise.. it's just a silly goofy thing.
And this is just a "draft"
Hopefuly I inspire you or not. Discuss away!
RE: Respawn as a "Hologram" - RelentlessGarbage - 01-25-2023
I like the general idea of giving better options for dead players to interact with the round, and I appreciate the thought you put into this, but...I feel like it'd just be better to implement some of these features and ideas into ghostdrones instead.
Goon is complicated as is. I don't think adding holograms would make it so much more complex for veterans, but it might confuse the hell out of new players (who already struggle with the controls alone). And if it leaves ghostdrones (as a feature) to languish even more as another developer relic, well...I don't know, I just think feature bloat is bad.
Some of these ideas are pretty neat, though. Giving you some specialization in the role you can take on when you die seems nice, so that you can do your job in a limited capacity after death. (And if you were working on a project before you died, you might be able to complete it in death.) Role-specific ghostdrones might allow for this, although they might go against the whole "you are only here to improve the station, ignore people and be aloof" attitude that ghostdrones currently have. (Which I'm not even sure I like to begin with. I get that this is a role-playing game, but it's hard for people to not be salty as hell after they die in a stupid or unfair way - us players are humans, not machines.) It might also let certain ghostdrones have real RCD's, rather than the garbage cardboard ones they currently have, by limiting that tool to engineering/science inclined Ghostdrones. What role you take on in death might be based on the role you originally signed up as, so that general balance remains the same (i.e. there can't be a million construction Ghostdrones fixing holes in the station because there are a finite amount of engineers and scientists starting out).
Long story short...I like the ideas, but maybe we should put them into revamping existing features that are underutilized (namely ghostdrones). Making ghostdrones more like heavily limited cyborgs that can do decently in specific roles, rather than being sort of bad at everything, seems like a reasonable direction to go in. That or we axe ghostdrones and add hologram people, I dunno.
RE: Respawn as a "Hologram" - Kotlol - 01-25-2023
(01-25-2023, 02:06 PM)RelentlessGarbage Wrote: I like the general idea of giving better options for dead players to interact with the round, and I appreciate the thought you put into this, but...I feel like it'd just be better to implement some of these features and ideas into ghostdrones instead.Pretty much this.. I find the hologram more "Dreadfull" and "NT"
Goon is complicated as is. I don't think adding holograms would make it so much more complex for veterans, but it might confuse the hell out of new players (who already struggle with the controls alone). And if it leaves ghostdrones (as a feature) to languish even more as another developer relic, well...I don't know, I just think feature bloat is bad.
Some of these ideas are pretty neat, though. Giving you some specialization in the role you can take on when you die seems nice, so that you can do your job in a limited capacity after death. (And if you were working on a project before you died, you might be able to complete it in death.) Role-specific ghostdrones might allow for this, although they might go against the whole "you are only here to improve the station, ignore people and be aloof" attitude that ghostdrones currently have. (Which I'm not even sure I like to begin with. I get that this is a role-playing game, but it's hard for people to not be salty as hell after they die in a stupid or unfair way - us players are humans, not machines.) It might also let certain ghostdrones have real RCD's, rather than the garbage cardboard ones they currently have, by limiting that tool to engineering/science inclined Ghostdrones. What role you take on in death might be based on the role you originally signed up as, so that general balance remains the same (i.e. there can't be a million construction Ghostdrones fixing holes in the station because there are a finite amount of engineers and scientists starting out).
Long story short...I like the ideas, but maybe we should put them into revamping existing features that are underutilized (namely ghostdrones). Making ghostdrones more like heavily limited cyborgs that can do decently in specific roles, rather than being sort of bad at everything, seems like a reasonable direction to go in. That or we axe ghostdrones and add hologram people, I dunno.
Don't worry fellow human.. your replacement is already here! Feels in line with SS13's dark humor.
But I am fine with retooling my Hologram suggestion to Ghostdrones too.
RE: Respawn as a "Hologram" - Judobum - 01-25-2023
I think thatd be a really cool and flavorful idea. Issue's may arise from people hologramming just to reveal their killer. Otherwise itd be much more fun and thematic to be a hologram over ghostdrone. Plus you could run some fun gimmicks with it like a staffie being a tour guide hologram or other stuff
RE: Respawn as a "Hologram" - RelentlessGarbage - 01-25-2023
(01-25-2023, 05:49 PM)Judobum Wrote: I think thatd be a really cool and flavorful idea. Issue's may arise from people hologramming just to reveal their killer. Otherwise itd be much more fun and thematic to be a hologram over ghostdrone. Plus you could run some fun gimmicks with it like a staffie being a tour guide hologram or other stuff
I think holograms can't talk, according to the suggestion, so that deals with the metagaming (and makes it so that you can't be a funny tour guide hologram).
And yeah, I didn't want to disparage the idea of holograms themselves, they seem quite cool. It's just that ghostdrones are already a thing, and there might be more support to rework a feature rather than get rid of it and replace it with another. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
RE: Respawn as a "Hologram" - babayetu83 - 01-25-2023
or it could just be against the rules to use holograms to meta instead of kneecapping a potentially fun feature because people might abuse it
RE: Respawn as a "Hologram" - Lord_earthfire - 01-25-2023
(01-25-2023, 01:02 PM)Kotlol Wrote: Why do we need this? We don't really.. but ghostdrones are barely used and kinda suck...
So.. this will obiviously replace ghostdrones to some degree.
But I think it would just be a more fun way to stay in a round if you die and cannot be cloned/brought back.
Aren't ghostdrones explicitely the way they are because of the use by classic players and a multitude of nerfs because of their post-death behaviour?
Like, i'm fimly in the "ban the players, not nerf the feature" camp, but i know it's a real problem for admins to handle it when every dead player is able to be a hologram and not just a few idiots abuse a niche feature and are logged instantly.
RE: Respawn as a "Hologram" - Kotlol - 01-26-2023
(01-25-2023, 10:08 PM)Lord_earthfire Wrote:(01-25-2023, 01:02 PM)Kotlol Wrote: Why do we need this? We don't really.. but ghostdrones are barely used and kinda suck...
So.. this will obiviously replace ghostdrones to some degree.
But I think it would just be a more fun way to stay in a round if you die and cannot be cloned/brought back.
Aren't ghostdrones explicitely the way they are because of the use by classic players and a multitude of nerfs because of their post-death behaviour?
Like, i'm fimly in the "ban the players, not nerf the feature" camp, but i know it's a real problem for admins to handle it when every dead player is able to be a hologram and not just a few idiots abuse a niche feature and are logged instantly.
The ghostdrones were kneecapped cause they spawned with a RCD and tools to do damage to the station.
Holograms do not get these tools UNLESS they are Engineers.
If someone joins and spawns as a hologram cause they went observer? They got staff assistant tools. Wich doesn't invovle crowbars and such.
More like small things like instruments (aka sound modifiers) and such. This part i haven't fully thought out yet since thinking of wich department gets what is hard to do..
I also know of my issue with these holograms for miners, as they won't be able to mine due to how mining works. Insted they are ment to be like cargo workers. Transporting stuff from mining to cargo and doing quantum telescope stuff... but again.. that's one of the snags of this system I was fully aware of.
Ghost drones were a problem since anyone who became one.....had a RCD. 10 dead staffies who are salty with RCDs? You know it will be abused.
But this hologram system (or "Neo Ghost drone" system if we go that route), Only give RCD to the person who is the assigned CE. So if the CE tragically dies and cannot be revived. They can come back as a holoogram and fix the station anyway.
That's the major difference. The other difference with ghostdrones is that they can't "Shimmy" through doors like critters. So they can't squeeze into engineering and make a mess there.. they are still scripted as "players" but "dead"
It means they can't be shoved, but they can't go through walls or doors they have no access to. To stop them from grieving.
So the differences between a hologram and ghostdrone is simple:
- Ghost drones are critters, Holograms follow the "player" script. Thus holograms have to obey the laws of doors and access.
- Ghost drones can go into space, Holograms can't.
- Ghost drones cannot see human players and who they are, holograms can but only via ID recongisition.
- Ghost Drones have a standard set of items for everyone, Holograms follow the script of what job you spawned as. (As shown in the afterlife bar giving you the right title/items /outfit)
- Ghost drones can be killed physically, Holograms cannot but can be shut down via the holo-matrix.
- Ghost drones need to charge up once in a while, Holograms do not.
- Ghost drones have a way of picking up items, Holograms cannot.
- Ghost drones can wear hats, Holograms can only edit their holographic profile (if added).
- Ghost drones are nameless dead players. Holograms are "named dead players"
- Neither can talk to the living directly, But a hologram can put up hologram images similiarly to the AI.
- Ghost Drones can use portals, Holograms can't.
And in the end.. the AI can also kill switch holograms.
The biggest difference between the two is the hologram is more a player with heavy restrictions. Yet different from a borg or ghost drone (thus the ghostdrone has some advantages over the hologram like able to move freely in space).
If anything... this is just a way for dead players to rejoin the round and finish what they started in case being cloned ain't an option.
Insted of "You tragically died and can't be cloned, use ghost drones to interact with the station again in this restrictve way or start over."
It is "You tragically died and can't be cloned, but you could become a hologram and finish the project you started."
If anything this would mean death doesn't mean abadoning the round, but insted opt to aid the round in a different way then alternatives.
And yes I know the glitched hologram may have Antags try to stop being borged, but if anything... glitched holograms are just nuisances and if they wanna be an afterlife nuisance... they can till they are killswitched and can't return. So if anything it's on the antag player to be a goof ball.
Also if you "die" as a hologram, you can still respawn as a ghost drone after.
Holograms are basicly a "back up life" till it's cut off. When the hologram is cut off... that's it.. no respawning as one. Only ghost drones and critters remain. (or wait till the full respawn timer is in effect)
RE: Respawn as a "Hologram" - Lord_earthfire - 01-26-2023
Ok, that alievates most of my concern with abuse.
I would add an easy way to destroy the hologram, though. Im thinking about 3-4 flash uses. This enables an quick IC way to get rid of a disruptive hologram. E.g a botanist that cannot talk is inherently disruptive, because we use the same recources (hydroponic trays)
Besides, half the murders are there so people don't continue their work. Holograms being invulnerable would be antithetical to that. I mean on top bombing cloning/gibbing/disposing corpses, you would be required to rogue the AI.
To be honest, i'm not a fan of the idea of departments being functional after wanton murder. Cloning is at least gated by retreival of the corpse, cloner defects and the possibility of gibbing/rotting.
RE: Respawn as a "Hologram" - Kotlol - 01-26-2023
(01-26-2023, 06:18 AM)Lord_earthfire Wrote: Ok, that alievates most of my concern with abuse.
I would add an easy way to destroy the hologram, though. Im thinking about 3-4 flash uses. This enables an quick IC way to get rid of a disruptive hologram. E.g a botanist that cannot talk is inherently disruptive, because we use the same recources (hydroponic trays)
Besides, half the murders are there so people don't continue their work. Holograms being invulnerable would be antithetical to that. I mean on top bombing cloning/gibbing/disposing corpses, you would be required to rogue the AI.
To be honest, i'm not a fan of the idea of departments being functional after wanton murder. Cloning is at least gated by retreival of the corpse, cloner defects and the possibility of gibbing/rotting.
Ah good concerns. The flashing thing would actually be a good idea. I will add that to the idea that, flashes will disrupt them!
Also you can just shut down ALL holograms by taking out the holomatrix.
But at the same time... these are valid concerns.
So let's keep thinking about it.. but... with cloning getting nerfed and always bombed, I just wanted that lil thing added so people can continune if they want to but they give up RESPAWNING ALL TOGETHER.
But then again...anyhow good feedback! I really thought of the abuse and I know chems and botany are risky topics that I would be on the "Line" of letting them do their job or remove it...