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+--- Thread: Discussion about genetics stability change (/showthread.php?tid=20413)
Discussion about genetics stability change - Shiiba - 12-28-2022
So, genetics recently had a silent change that the starting stability went from 125, to 100.
The change is listed as balance.
What exactly is it balancing here? Apparently, genetics used to start at 100 but was increased to 125 but now we've gone back to 100 and I've seen people suffer from being unstable very quickly now.
I'm really not a fan of this change, I don't know if others feel the same way.
RE: Discussion about genetics stability change - Kotlol - 12-29-2022
I know why they do this... but to explain this, we gotta learn the history.
As far as I know atleast.
Genetics used to be 100 yes. The reason for that is the fact, if you wanna be a super mutant, you gotta have bad mutations too aka weaknesses.
But then we got "Empowered, stablizers and such."
So now every good mutation like Rad Resistance, Thermal Resistance and such can have no stability cost or less 5%.
So no one would go unstable. No one was adding bad mutations anymore, cause stablizers came into play.
Then the admins and developers were like... Yea this isn't good. People just get Rad resist and not care.
Genecists don't have to make alot of hard choices. Good mutation? THROW STABLIZER ON IT! Bad mutation? Throw it away.
Only rarely would you use Empowered or Synchronized for certain abillities like Bio-Mass and Energized Optics. (aka lazer eyes)
But taking these were considered "An antagonist"
So they tweaked some of these overused mutations to not give 100% immunity, forcing genecists to use Empowering to make these mutations be what they are.
Heck something like SMES Human made them immune to energy weapoins and elecrtified doors.. so alot of these mutations were changed to "Empowered for 100%"
This of course... caused issues again and genecists became frustrated, so admins decided to give an Extra 25% again to allow Genecists to go crazy again.
So some time later... We learned some things. Negative mutations that get cancel out for positive ones.
Empowered Thermal Resistance, cancels out Thermal Vunerability. So if you hade Empowered Thermal, you can add Thermal Vun to someone to increase their stability for free.
The famous O2 gene that makes you breath in space? Yep any mutations that makes it hard to breath aren't in effect when you have that. Another free points.
So now Genecists can Empower, stabilize and experiment more. Forcing them to find out what bad mutations can be nullified by good ones. Or wich bad mutations can be added to their "Super human genepool"
Even Booster Gene X is now needed to find certain mutations too....
So I guess due to the fact Genecists are finding out certain bad mutations are made null and void by popular strong mutations for stability, the admins lowered it to back to 100 to counteract expirenced Genecists and forcing newer and less expirenced genecists to figure out what's what.
Remember that pretty much an antagonist genecist who knows what they are doing can easily become an one army mutant that is unstoppable and blocks mutadones.
Now imagine that antagonist genecist making this mutation pack for every of his buddies and badabing badaboom... you now got the equivalant of a wizard raid but in mutations. (Though it's unlikely, it's a scenerio)
So with that said... how do I feel? Neutral.
Stability limits are basicly balancing and in my opinion. I am fine with it as now I gotta learn what good mutations cancels out the bad.
RE: Discussion about genetics stability change - RubberRats - 12-29-2022
My thoughts on the matter are that somebody didn't like how people were mostly using genetics to load up on the same passives every round they were available. My take on the matter is that this is a symptom of the other problem with the current iteration of genetics. As a rule of thumb, how useful a gene is seems to be inversely proportional to how interesting it is. The worst culprit of this are the immunity genes, which allow a prepared spaceman to outright ignore certain hazards. Incredibly useful, but it doesn't exactly make for compelling gameplay. Meanwhile, many of the mutations that grant new capabilities, like Shadow Cloak and Optic Energizer, are more situational in their usage or mostly just gimmicks or just kinda suck.
The consequence of this is that instead of stations where people are running around shooting eye lasers and breathing fire you get ones where they have slightly more stamina and don't need to breathe. While the latter scenario is less interesting, those powers require less effort to use and are applicable to more situations. It also doesn't help that the way stability works as a mechanic affects ability mutations more than it does passive ones.
If you want my opinion, I think a version of genetics that was more focused on active abilities and oddball mutations (like the bee ones) would better serve the game than the one that we currently got. I have a few ideas that I've been brainstorming towards that end, though they aren't really in a presentable state yet.
RE: Discussion about genetics stability change - babayetu83 - 12-29-2022
i think some of them were nerfed, i was taking slight radiation damage when i was out during a rad storm and checking out the nuclear engine on kondaru, granted that was probably an extreme amount
RE: Discussion about genetics stability change - Lord_earthfire - 12-30-2022
(12-29-2022, 06:35 PM)babayetu83 Wrote: i think some of them were nerfed, i was taking slight radiation damage when i was out during a rad storm and checking out the nuclear engine on kondaru, granted that was probably an extreme amount
Since the radiation rework, to my knowledge, straight 100% rad immunity isnt possible anymore in general, rad suits and roach included.
That change is already a few months old, though.
RE: Discussion about genetics stability change - CalliopeSoups - 01-01-2023
I'll admit it feels odd that a lot of genes are enough to put you into bad stability by themselves now. One empowered jumpy is enough to hit your head on the ceiling.
RE: Discussion about genetics stability change - Retrino - 01-02-2023
add back the robust genetics trait
RE: Discussion about genetics stability change - Mouse - 01-03-2023
I feel like stability modifiers could use a once-over.
Especially Erebokinesis make that thing have a fucking -40 penalty.
RE: Discussion about genetics stability change - Kotlol - 01-03-2023
(01-03-2023, 05:36 AM)Mouse Wrote: I feel like stability modifiers could use a once-over.
Especially Erebokinesis make that thing have a fucking -40 penalty.
Sounds more like we need more ways for genecists to stablizer a gene then just "Stablizers"
Alot of people want genetics changes.. we tried many ways.. but maybe being able to research further into one mutation would be fun.
I can already see manipulating the mutations to fix stability, power output, synchronizing and such.
While flat boosters can still apply.. insted you take something like Erebokinesis and try to "Tweak the sliders"
Like less stability but more power and not being able to be removed with Mutadone.
Or more stability and such.
Suddenly a genecist who wants to make the best mutations possible is more fun.
RE: Discussion about genetics stability change - Nerkson - 01-16-2023
I was taking a break to deal with work, and coming back I found this change had occurred. Genetics has always been kind of a boring job, and the change doesn't help.
Main gripes? You sit at a computer, pressing boring buttons all shift. It can just take forever to do anything because finding willing participants is extremely difficult, believe it or not. Most genes are worthless and provide no actual benefit. Genes that give a boost to stability are often debilitating, and most genes are too good. There's 7 different kind of chromosomes and only two of them matter.
So here I am for 70 minutes plonking away on monkeys to get good genes. Monkeys don't give chromosomes that let you do fun things like Empower or Stabilize. If I'm lucky I get a few human volunteers to help bolster my chromosome counts, otherwise I'm stuck with whatever chromosomes researching my own genetic record gives.
As stability drops below 100, Genes start only working to a certain %. 90 stability means the genes work 90% of the time, to what I'm assuming is the server tick before it checks again. Under 40 Stability, genes can start degrading into horrifically worse versions of themselves at a fixed percentage.
Regeneration is -40, and Toxic Resistance is -40 as well. That nice regeneration can now turn into a MUTAGENIC FIELD, and Toxic Resistance into a gene that makes your blood MORE toxic if you're unlucky with the roll. And given how many times the games checks a round, you'll probably trigger it.
It feels like I'm being an antag putting non-stabilized genes in the machine because I know it'll bite me in the ass when someone grabs 10 of them, dies, and accuses me of killing them. Like the chef putting prions in all the kitchen food.
RE: Discussion about genetics stability change - Zamujasa - 01-16-2023
(12-29-2022, 06:35 PM)babayetu83 Wrote: i think some of them were nerfed, i was taking slight radiation damage when i was out during a rad storm and checking out the nuclear engine on kondaru, granted that was probably an extreme amount
a while ago most of the passive genes were split, where the "empowered" version is the old effect and the normal (/stabilized, reinforced, etc) version is considerably weaker than before. "radio brain" / "meta-neural antenna" used to give you all radio channels, but the non-empowered version now only gives you the default 145.9.
part of the reason iirc that stability was bumped up to 125 was so that you could actually have a funny power or two without immediately dipping into "constant misfire" range. but most of the time genetics just produces stabilized ones because the stability loss is too great otherwise.