+- Goonstation Forums (https://forum.ss13.co)
+-- Forum: Server Appeals (https://forum.ss13.co/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Admin Feedback (https://forum.ss13.co/forumdisplay.php?fid=5)
+--- Thread: Feedback Issuing bans unrelated to server rules. (/showthread.php?tid=19649)
Issuing bans unrelated to server rules. - JackTrysGames - 09-04-2022
Who banned you?: Janantilles
Byond Key: JackTrysGames
Discord Username: Unknown
Date of Ban: 2022-03-11
Specified Reason for Ban: Long history of toxic language and behavior towards other players, despite many warnings and last chances. This ban can be appealed on 4/11/22 at the earliest.
Ban Length: Permanent
Admin response was as follows:
---
I appreciate the ban appeal and that you've taken the time to think about the actions that led to you being banned from Goonstation.
However, I don't think your reasoning would actually result in any meaningful change. There were indeed rules that you broke, but the most important one was that you had a constantly toxic attitude toward other players, especially new ones. The fact that you took your Security role-ban and made it part of your backstory, saying that "NT didn't appreciate" how you were the one to take action, is a perfect demonstration of how you considered yourself above the rules and better than everyone.
"Next time I'll ahelp" is enough of a gross misunderstanding of why you were banned that I do not see any reason to unban you, now or in the foreseeable future.
---
First of all, what rules did I break? I genuinely don't know. The only obvious one was the single Rule 4 break (which I regretted immediately after sending) that directly caused the ban.
Aside from that, I don't know what I did wrong, and they won't tell me beyond "toxicity towards other players, especially new ones" (wait, that isn't a violation of the rules, plus I wasn't constantly toxic- I was only toxic if they were outright annoying or attacked me) and an incident that I can reliably explain.
(I sided with a group of RP antags who had broken an APC at worst over a team of Sec who wanted to stun them and brig them for being valid. I don't regret that. I followed Space Law and the server rules. This lead up to the Sec role ban, as I was a Detective at the time. Wait, aren't Detectives technically not part of the Sec team?)
Event leading up to this ban was also borderline unacceptable- as a NTSO, subject used sublethals before nonlethals, applied excessive force, outright killed the subject, and moved to Robotics to debrain them on RP.
I honestly don't expect an unban.
But if this saves even one other person from being wrongfully banned, or if I get an explanation, it's worth it.
RE: Issuing bans unrelated to server rules. - Gerhazo - 09-04-2022
Based on the format, this is a ban appeal thread. You have posted in the wrong subforum, or mistakenly took the wrong template.
For the rules, as I haven't been involved in any incidents here, looking through the logs of your course of history here: griefing, bigoted language/slurs, sexual language and unrelated toxic, unpleasant and sometimes outright weird behaviour towards other players, which would mostly encompass rule 1 and 4.
Toxicity isn't specified in the rules, it's very uncommon for someone to manage with their behaviour to be so unpleasant or off-putting that removing them just based on that is a consideration and the primary defense for an offender being it not present in the rules is self-acknowledging.
This ban presumably having been an all-encompassing culmination of all those things as your pressence decided a net-negative for the server and better present without.
As this is once again, not an appeal thread and I also haven't been directly involved with these I won't disclose any details from the information I was able to gleam from the staff logs, but hopefully it sheds the light on what rules may have been involved and that the staff can remove individuals they deem to be a major detriment to the server and other players.
edit: based on the passive-aggressive remarks i.e. asking someone "you're actually getting unbanned?" in someone else's ban-related thread it doesn't seem like this thread was made in good faith, but hopefully this information serves you regardless.
RE: Issuing bans unrelated to server rules. - JackTrysGames - 09-11-2022
(09-04-2022, 01:24 PM)Gerhazo Wrote: Based on the format, this is a ban appeal thread. You have posted in the wrong subforum, or mistakenly took the wrong template.
For the rules, as I haven't been involved in any incidents here, looking through the logs of your course of history here: griefing, bigoted language/slurs, sexual language and unrelated toxic, unpleasant and sometimes outright weird behaviour towards other players, which would mostly encompass rule 1 and 4.
Toxicity isn't specified in the rules, it's very uncommon for someone to manage with their behaviour to be so unpleasant or off-putting that removing them just based on that is a consideration and the primary defense for an offender being it not present in the rules is self-acknowledging.
This ban presumably having been an all-encompassing culmination of all those things as your pressence decided a net-negative for the server and better present without.
As this is once again, not an appeal thread and I also haven't been directly involved with these I won't disclose any details from the information I was able to gleam from the staff logs, but hopefully it sheds the light on what rules may have been involved and that the staff can remove individuals they deem to be a major detriment to the server and other players.
edit: based on the passive-aggressive remarks i.e. asking someone "you're actually getting unbanned?" in someone else's ban-related thread it doesn't seem like this thread was made in good faith, but hopefully this information serves you regardless.
Lemme disassemble this piece by piece.
"Based on the format, this is a ban appeal thread. You have posted in the wrong subforum, or mistakenly took the wrong template."
I tried to talk about this in the actual ban appeal section, but nobody listened, and Jan sure as hell wasn't going to, so I'm here instead. What did you expect?
"For the rules, as I haven't been involved in any incidents here, looking through the logs of your course of history here: griefing, bigoted language/slurs, sexual language and unrelated toxic, unpleasant and sometimes outright weird behaviour towards other players, which would mostly encompass rule 1 and 4."
First of all, you just described my ban reason better than Janantilles did, proving my point even further. Second of all, "outright weird behavior"? Isn't this game about being weird spacemen? I admit I did say a LOT of bad things, but this ban reason makes it sound like I was ERPing and greytiding at every opportunity. (Plus, I didn't see anything too serious on the footage I had saved from my time on SS13. Is there something I'm not aware of that I did?)
"Toxicity isn't specified in the rules, it's very uncommon for someone to manage with their behaviour to be so unpleasant or off-putting that removing them just based on that is a consideration and the primary defense for an offender being it not present in the rules is self-acknowledging."
...what? Hang on, I need a moment to understand what you said here. If I'm reading this correctly, then my behavior (which I had actually been working on prior to the incident that caused the ban) was a complete statistical anomaly and that my language was somehow so unpleasant that it was one of the primary reasons for my ban?
Seriously? You guys saw it as THAT bad? What the hell?
"This ban presumably having been an all-encompassing culmination of all those things as your pressence decided a net-negative for the server and better present without."
A culmination of something I was actively getting better about, all because I relapsed once when a NTSO used sublethals before nonlethals, used excessive force, committed second degree murder, and then didn't even get warned for it?
"As this is once again, not an appeal thread and I also haven't been directly involved with these I won't disclose any details from the information I was able to gleam from the staff logs..."
Why do you guys hide this stuff, anyway? How do I work to improve myself if I don't even know what I did wrong half the time?
"...but hopefully it sheds the light on what rules may have been involved and that the staff can remove individuals they deem to be a major detriment to the server and other players."
So let me get this straight. I was enough of a detriment to the server on my own that I was removed... despite the fact that I didn't alter the course of any round I was in? Again, what the hell, guys?
"edit: based on the passive-aggressive remarks i.e. asking someone "you're actually getting unbanned?" in someone else's ban-related thread it doesn't seem like this thread was made in good faith, but hopefully this information serves you regardless."
That was a meme.
RE: Issuing bans unrelated to server rules. - nefarious6th - 09-12-2022
i can only answer one part of this.
i found you at customs on oshan, asked you about the captain's spare ID that we knew you had stolen and where it went; you said it was gone in exchange for something; i asked what; you flashed a katana at me; i said you had to turn it over; you refused; i attempted to stun you; you ran a quarter of the way around the station in the southeast quarter past podbay and into maintenance and then out an airlock Into The Ocean, at which point i unloaded the signifer stuns on you to no effect because the gun was weak, and swapped to the clock when my cell was out and fired i believe 6 rounds that all hit. you went into critical from the combination of O2 damage and the brute from the bullets; i dragged you to medbay and put you on the table in the operating room and grabbed a roboticist nearby to remove the bullets from you while i removed your bag. they seemed new and you died on the table and i left you to get cloned and released because i already had your bag and because there was a shootout with two other armed antags below medbay in front of the security checkpoint and two secoffs down.
i underestimated the clock damage in culmination with how much o2 damage you had from being in the ocean. i am genuinely sorry i killed you in that round.
hope that clears things up.
RE: Issuing bans unrelated to server rules. - Cal - 09-12-2022
(09-11-2022, 08:09 PM)JackTrysGames Wrote: I tried to talk about this in the actual ban appeal section, but nobody listened, and Jan sure as hell wasn't going to, so I'm here instead. What did you expect?
No.
You don't get to post an admin complaint after having your ban appeal denied. You are dragging the staff who reasonably banned you through the mud and making them litigate each statement you have made line by line. This is not how it works. You will not be unbanned because of this feedback thread no matter how much you argue.
We are not interested in having you on our servers. This thread is closed. Don't make another.