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+--- Thread: Dwarf and Aquatic Genetics included as Traits for Character Creation (/showthread.php?tid=19629)
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Dwarf and Aquatic Genetics included as Traits for Character Creation - Obengrad - 08-31-2022
These two mutations are rarely ever seen outside of Genetics (and in Dwarf's case, the rare miner mutation), and I find it somewhat of a waste. The spritework and coding was all nicely done, and now they're barely used as they're locked behind a job that rarely, if ever, puts them up for sale for the station. My idea is to make both of these genetic mutations traits, with possible stats below. Mutations at their base may need changing to fit with being available all the time.
Dwarf (Uncategorized - 0-1 point):
- 10% Heat and Cold resistance, as it is currently. (Maybe add a touch of alcohol resistance?)
- 10% Movement slowdown. (Does not stack with armor movement penalties.)
- Possible tuning of footsteps to a noticeably lower sound to indicate heftier waddling.
In Conclusion: Dwarf is probably fine to make a trait right off, due to it's low impact already, but the aesthetic choice is nice and adds more permutations to character appearances. Slowdown is more for flavor and humor rather than balance.
Aquatic Genetics [AKA Squidperson] (Species - 1-2 points):
- No swimming slowdown and water breathing, as it is currently.
- Damaged by salt, with 0.75 BURN taken for each unit splashed on a Squidperson without protection. Decently common element and trivial to synthesize.
- Immunity to Kuru from eating monkey and human brains. (Because Illithids are cool and why not?)
- Possible weakness to stabbing attacks, much like Roachpersons blunt weakness. Soft skin, easy to cut, understandable.
- Possible innate telepathy? (Might be too strong, but it's worth a shot.)
- New skin colors other than just purple. (Blue, black, gold, red, etc. Maybe link it to hair/eye color like Saurian Genetics.)
In Conclusion: Aquatic Genetics is a lot more difficult to balance around regular play, as it can be an extremely strong trait on Oshan Laboratory, Manta, or any other aquatic maps. However, it is not much stronger than Anaerobic Respiration, and lack of heat resistance means it only delays the inevitable in the Trench, not to mention how this species would be vastly outweighed by it's weaknesses on ANY other map without water. Concerns around Anaerobic Respiration's balance, how easily it could be gotten with Aquatic Genetics being a common trait, and all the work it would take to avoid, Aquatic Genetics shouldn't be a trait as it is now. But the fish people will have their day!
Finally; This is my proposal, I want dwarves and squidpeople to be more common. Truth be told I will debate at length about it, but ultimately so long as they become traits in the game, the final mechanisms of the traits doesn't matter to me too much. Even just adding them as-is to traits without any changes whatsoever would be cool.
RE: Dwarf and Aquatic Genetics included as Traits for Character Creation - Kotlol - 09-01-2022
Squid people get secbuddies to chase them. Not Beepskies, SECBUDDIES.
Though I am 100% for dwarves. Squid people not so much yet.
RE: Dwarf and Aquatic Genetics included as Traits for Character Creation - Love - 09-01-2022
I'm all for dwarfism being chooseable. Just for more cosmetic difference.
Make the RP players happy. I know some on RP play short characters and would love for it to be consistent. I know I would!
Hopefully it can mix with mutant race picks!
I expect squids will likely remain unchooseable, just because of the Oshan (and Manta if it ever reappears) thing. That has always been the big reason for it not being choosable, I think. 'Not any stronger than aerobic metabolism' already makes it basically the strongest trait pick I can think of, mechanically. By leaps and bounds. For having less strengths on other maps? I expect it would just mean many people would load other characters on those.
RE: Dwarf and Aquatic Genetics included as Traits for Character Creation - Kotlol - 09-01-2022
(09-01-2022, 04:41 AM)Love Wrote: I'm all for dwarfism being chooseable. Just for more cosmetic difference.
Make the RP players happy. I know some on RP play short characters and would love for it to be consistent. I know I would!
Hopefully it can mix with mutant race picks!
I expect squids will likely remain unchooseable, just because of the Oshan (and Manta if it ever reappears) thing. That has always been the big reason for it not being choosable, I think. 'Not any stronger than aerobic metabolism' already makes it basically the strongest trait pick I can think of, mechanically. By leaps and bounds. For having less strengths on other maps? I expect it would just mean many people would load other characters on those.
Also let's not forget.. dwarfism can work on other species and not override it.
Unlike colorfull skin wich overrides any species mutation....
Dwarfism just shrinks your legs and works for monkeys to pugs.
So if anything.. we can see dwarf roaches, pugs, monkeys, skeletons and lizards too.
RE: Dwarf and Aquatic Genetics included as Traits for Character Creation - Obengrad - 09-01-2022
(09-01-2022, 04:41 AM)Love Wrote: I'm all for dwarfism being chooseable. Just for more cosmetic difference.
Make the RP players happy. I know some on RP play short characters and would love for it to be consistent. I know I would!
Hopefully it can mix with mutant race picks!
I expect squids will likely remain unchooseable, just because of the Oshan (and Manta if it ever reappears) thing. That has always been the big reason for it not being choosable, I think. 'Not any stronger than aerobic metabolism' already makes it basically the strongest trait pick I can think of, mechanically. By leaps and bounds. For having less strengths on other maps? I expect it would just mean many people would load other characters on those.
While I did address my concerns about Oshan balancing, I do somewhat disagree with the latter half of that. Pugpeople are still a decently common sight despite being essentially all drawbacks aside from sleuthing, and I presume that aside from the fact that the race is challenging, people pick it because they wanna be neat dog people. It'd likely be the same here. Hell I'd be a squidperson on every map if I could, Secbuddies or drawbacks be damned.
RE: Dwarf and Aquatic Genetics included as Traits for Character Creation - Ikea - 09-01-2022
While dwarves can be cool the compression can break sprites and make them look less good/visually jank. Having them as a trait seems bad for this reason. Also squid people being genetics only is cool as it makes it a unique and neat thing that genetics can do.
RE: Dwarf and Aquatic Genetics included as Traits for Character Creation - Kamikaze Mongoose - 09-01-2022
I'm all for dwarves as well, not enough rock'n stone (to the bone) ((or you aint comin home)) every shift. I don't recall why dwarfism was canned, but it might have something to do with it being offensive against people who suffer from it. If possible, it'd be neat if we could make it a trait that makes you a tad shorter to keep it from being offensive but it'd be difficult to make it look clean unless we redo everything visually for them like we did for the monkeys.
+1!
RE: Dwarf and Aquatic Genetics included as Traits for Character Creation - babayetu83 - 09-01-2022
i can't really imagine people getting offended by having dwarfism in the game. it's tasteful and a nice degree of representation
and for player squid people just give them some kind of debuff that affects them on dry land. i also think for oshan/manta it would be interesting if that the water outside were sea water versus potable water
RE: Dwarf and Aquatic Genetics included as Traits for Character Creation - Obengrad - 09-01-2022
(09-01-2022, 01:01 PM)Kamikaze Mongoose Wrote: I'm all for dwarves as well, not enough rock'n stone (to the bone) ((or you aint comin home)) every shift. I don't recall why dwarfism was canned, but it might have something to do with it being offensive against people who suffer from it. If possible, it'd be neat if we could make it a trait that makes you a tad shorter to keep it from being offensive but it'd be difficult to make it look clean unless we redo everything visually for them like we did for the monkeys.
+1!
Things already kinda work with the sprites, tbh. That's kind of why I suggested this, all the legwork's been laid out already, it's mostly at this point just making it selectable at readyup.
RE: Dwarf and Aquatic Genetics included as Traits for Character Creation - Washbasin - 09-03-2022
(08-31-2022, 08:07 PM)Obengrad Wrote: These two mutations are rarely ever seen outside of Genetics (and in Dwarf's case, the rare miner mutation), and I find it somewhat of a waste. The spritework and coding was all nicely done, and now they're barely used as they're locked behind a job that rarely, if ever, puts them up for sale for the station. My idea is to make both of these genetic mutations traits, with possible stats below. Mutations at their base may need changing to fit with being available all the time.
Dwarf (Uncategorized - 0-1 point):
- 10% Heat and Cold resistance, as it is currently. (Maybe add a touch of alcohol resistance?)
- 10% Movement slowdown. (Does not stack with armor movement penalties.)
- Possible tuning of footsteps to a noticeably lower sound to indicate heftier waddling.
In Conclusion: Dwarf is probably fine to make a trait right off, due to it's low impact already, but the aesthetic choice is nice and adds more permutations to character appearances. Slowdown is more for flavor and humor rather than balance.
Aquatic Genetics [AKA Squidperson] (Species - 1-2 points):
- No swimming slowdown and water breathing, as it is currently.
- Damaged by salt, with 0.75 BURN taken for each unit splashed on a Squidperson without protection. Decently common element and trivial to synthesize.
- Immunity to Kuru from eating monkey and human brains. (Because Illithids are cool and why not?)
- Possible weakness to stabbing attacks, much like Roachpersons blunt weakness. Soft skin, easy to cut, understandable.
- Possible innate telepathy? (Might be too strong, but it's worth a shot.)
- New skin colors other than just purple. (Blue, black, gold, red, etc. Maybe link it to hair/eye color like Saurian Genetics.)
In Conclusion: Aquatic Genetics is a lot more difficult to balance around regular play, as it can be an extremely strong trait on Oshan Laboratory, Manta, or any other aquatic maps. However, it is not much stronger than Anaerobic Respiration, and lack of heat resistance means it only delays the inevitable in the Trench, not to mention how this species would be vastly outweighed by it's weaknesses on ANY other map without water.
Finally; This is my proposal, I want dwarves and squidpeople to be more common. Truth be told I will debate at length about it, but ultimately so long as they become traits in the game, the final mechanisms of the traits doesn't matter to me too much. Even just adding them as-is to traits without any changes whatsoever would be cool.
The actual gene mutation for squidpeople is half of the recipe for anaerobic metabolism, which completely nullifies the need to breath air.
Making anaerobic twice as easy to obtain isn't a good idea; it'd remove half the danger from space, and the majority of danger from depressurised environments, toxic gases, smoke, and heart failures. This removes depth in gameplay created by these multiple dangers, and also limits the options of antagonists.
I don't think there's a need for dwarf to be its own mutantrace, it could surely work as a background trait or something, but a seperate race as you suggest would stop all the other mutantraces from becoming dwarves.
I could see squids getting their own trait, but there would have to be work put around reconfiguring how anaerobic is made. Then because anaerobic's recipe would change, whatever component gene takes the place of aquatic genetics would also have to have its stuff changed to be less common. Then possibly others. It is a big tunnel of changes, all for squids.
Maybe I am on a slippery slope here, and these changes would only be beneficial, but the potential for issues seems like something that hasn't been fully considered.
I think it's doable, but right now there isn't much need to do it, and changing it would cause problems.
RE: Dwarf and Aquatic Genetics included as Traits for Character Creation - Waffleloffle - 09-04-2022
PLEASE just let geneticists have things to do and work towards that aren't Hardcore Powergaming
RE: Dwarf and Aquatic Genetics included as Traits for Character Creation - Kotlol - 09-04-2022
(09-04-2022, 12:55 AM)Waffleloffle Wrote: PLEASE just let geneticists have things to do and work towards that aren't Hardcore Powergaming
Most geneticists are playing the RNG slot machine anyway everytime they have to work.
1 time you get the best mutations from the start.
Another time you are taking 20+ mins before even the 1st good one appears.
But... I do agree Aquatic should not be sub-race or only allow breathing in water.
Dwarfism should just be a trait you can have and not a race.
RE: Dwarf and Aquatic Genetics included as Traits for Character Creation - DioChasek - 09-04-2022
(09-04-2022, 12:55 AM)Waffleloffle Wrote: PLEASE just let geneticists have things to do and work towards that aren't Hardcore Powergaming
But I wanna win the farty spaceman game!
RE: Dwarf and Aquatic Genetics included as Traits for Character Creation - Obengrad - 09-04-2022
(09-03-2022, 08:14 PM)Washbasin Wrote:(08-31-2022, 08:07 PM)Obengrad Wrote: - snip -
The actual gene mutation for squidpeople is half of the recipe for anaerobic metabolism, which completely nullifies the need to breath air.
Making anaerobic twice as easy to obtain isn't a good idea; it'd remove half the danger from space, and the majority of danger from depressurised environments, toxic gases, smoke, and heart failures. This removes depth in gameplay created by these multiple dangers, and also limits the options of antagonists.
I don't think there's a need for dwarf to be its own mutantrace, it could surely work as a background trait or something, but a seperate race as you suggest would stop all the other mutantraces from becoming dwarves.
I could see squids getting their own trait, but there would have to be work put around reconfiguring how anaerobic is made. Then because anaerobic's recipe would change, whatever component gene takes the place of aquatic genetics would also have to have its stuff changed to be less common. Then possibly others. It is a big tunnel of changes, all for squids.
Maybe I am on a slippery slope here, and these changes would only be beneficial, but the potential for issues seems like something that hasn't been fully considered.
I think it's doable, but right now there isn't much need to do it, and changing it would cause problems.
I didn't actually think about Aquatic being half of Respiration there, that's a good catch. Putting drawbacks aside and whatnot that's probably the hugest glaring problem with the idea as a whole. Maybe make natural squidpeople an offshoot mutation? Probably more of a bandaid rather than something that actually works. If anybody's got more ideas on a less invasive way to get around this issue, who knows. Once again I'm reiterating that the upsides are basically just for in-universe sense, even if it's a blank species with just a sprite, I'd still go for it.
(09-04-2022, 12:55 AM)Waffleloffle Wrote: PLEASE just let geneticists have things to do and work towards that aren't Hardcore Powergaming
If two cosmetic mutations are all the "fun not tryhard" things that geneticists can do, which they're most definitely not, then that's an issue with the role and how Genetics works, not with the traits. Just saying.
(09-04-2022, 07:40 AM)Kotlol Wrote:(09-04-2022, 12:55 AM)Waffleloffle Wrote: -snip-
Most geneticists are playing the RNG slot machine anyway everytime they have to work.
1 time you get the best mutations from the start.
Another time you are taking 20+ mins before even the 1st good one appears.
But... I do agree Aquatic should not be sub-race or only allow breathing in water.
Dwarfism should just be a trait you can have and not a race.
I think I did say that the "Dwarf Trait" would be "uncategorized", I figured saying "basically add dwarf as-is to the traits" implied this. I wouldn't be gunning for it as hard if it was only available to non-mutants.
P.S: Wow multi-quoting is such a janky thing to do on here.
RE: Dwarf and Aquatic Genetics included as Traits for Character Creation - babayetu83 - 09-05-2022
if its the anaerobic metabolism that would make them imbalanced then why not give them a significant weakness to compensate? like a lower stamina cap, needing to keep hydrated (by drinking water or running into water naked as you need to do in order to clean yourself on RP)