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+--- Thread: reddit (/showthread.php?tid=19417)
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reddit - Witherael - 08-06-2022
assuming i cant be considered heretical for linking a reddit post, i would like to probe for an answer to this here post of mine
i have little experience with both forums and reddit, so do bear in mind before casting judgement, its just that this far, out of 172 viewers, only one person has replied, and it was what i think to be a karma farmer comment.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SS13/comments/wi8sfe/why_do_goon_admins_have_no_checks_or_balances/
RE: reddit - Waffleloffle - 08-07-2022
"i was banned for 30 days on the server for splashing acid on someone to melt their clown mask, pretty much because i thought clown mains were the type of people who would rather laugh about it than report it."
yeah I mean I dunno it kinda seems hypocritical for you to complain about the admins getting up in your business and ruining your fun when you seem completely unapologetic about doing the same thing for other players
RE: reddit - Witherael - 08-07-2022
(08-07-2022, 12:13 AM)Waffleloffle Wrote: "i was banned for 30 days on the server for splashing acid on someone to melt their clown mask, pretty much because i thought clown mains were the type of people who would rather laugh about it than report it."
yeah I mean I dunno it kinda seems hypocritical for you to complain about the admins getting up in your business and ruining your fun when you seem completely unapologetic about doing the same thing for other players
that isnt even what the post was about? you fail to mention that the post is merely about the lack of checks and balances of the admin system, not my personal ban. additionally, seeing as i did not ask for your opinion on my ban, ill kindly ask that you dont instigate by mentioning it.
RE: reddit - Mrprogamer96 - 08-07-2022
Goon already has checks and balances.
its simply people leave goon, no need for a full on government to be formed over a silly farty spacs game.
RE: reddit - Caro - 08-07-2022
I'd love to get dragged into a debate about the way admin team treats and judges players, but I see a little crack here: the absolute lack of sincerety and good faith from your side. Let's take a look at your latest ban.
You:
-got adminPMd for splashing someone wih acid
-responded with "yeah, ok" when told to stop doing that (which would be 100% fine, if not what happened next)
-proceeded to complain about getting PMd in-game and splashed someone with acid, AGAIN
Considering those circumstances and your previous notes/bans, I think the ban was 100% justified. Feel fred to use the admin complaints subforum if you think otherwise tho.
RE: reddit - Witherael - 08-07-2022
(08-07-2022, 01:21 AM)TTerc Wrote: I'd love to get dragged into a debate about the way admin team treats and judges players, but I see a little crack here: the absolute lack of sincerety and good faith from your side. Let's take a look at your latest ban.
You:
-got adminPMd for splashing someone wih acid
-responded with "yeah, ok" when told to stop doing that (which would be 100% fine, if not what happened next)
-proceeded to complain about getting PMd in-game and splashed someone with acid, AGAIN
Considering those circumstances and your previous notes/bans, I think the ban was 100% justified. Feel fred to use the admin complaints subforum if you think otherwise tho.
ok, i never said the ban was unjustified though. i fully agree with the ban.
and truthfully, shit was 10 days ago, so im not even going to pretend like i remember my thought process. i was just acting stupid, and i got what was coming to me.
the full reason i was inspired to talk about it was the other situation, wherein someone was banned for foul language, the worst of which seeming to be the word bitch.
i also fully believe that my discord ban was unjust, based on two screenshots i saw after having been banned, one denoting someone i was in vc with, of whom i pinged once, asking what they were doing in vc while both deafened and not streaming, saying he was sick of my shit behind my back instead of to my face like an adult, and the mod who had banned me solely off of annoying him when i was having a conversation with someone else who even vouched for me that i was chill, calling me a shithole.
it feels overall unprofessional, and it was something i wanted to talk about, and get opinions on. i never once mentioned my current ban, but i do thank you for the excuse to fully state my reasoning as to why i made the post, as i did want to go back and clarify, but it felt too late.
(08-07-2022, 12:39 AM)Mrprogamer96 Wrote: Goon already has checks and balances.
its simply people leave goon, no need for a full on government to be formed over a silly farty spacs game.
this obviously isnt what i meant, i used the american government system as an example of power distribution. the american government system is still extremely flawed regardless, but its a stable system that has worked for generations. the point i was making was that admins have free reign, and no one to counter them, which is usually considered a problem in terms of rule enforcement. there are no cops without a mayor, without a senator, etc. i realize it does sound very goofy when fit into the perspective of a 2006 game engine with a still active community, but it was merely meant for discussion, and potential growth.
i dont quite know where i went wrong during drafting, but it seems that the only take away was not any new perspectives or insights on the admin system as a whole, but rather that i was complaining about my ban. the amount of people who seem to have entirely missed the point astonishes me.
see below for three examples, and the ratio of likes to dislikes.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/631326684322463765/1005777343354261684/1.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/631326684322463765/1005777343769489529/2.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/631326684322463765/1005777344105025546/3.png
additionally, there are those who completely shrugged it off without anything meaningful to say at all.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/631326684322463765/1005777344486715464/14.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/631326684322463765/1005777345224900638/15.png
if you, or anyone else reading can tell me what exactly i said within the post that would make so many people think it was about my ban, or just otherwise not care for more than shitting on the post needlessly, please follow up.
RE: reddit - Frank_Stein - 08-07-2022
(08-07-2022, 01:43 AM)Witherael Wrote: it feels overall unprofessional, and it was something i wanted to talk about, and get opinions on.
The reason it feels that way is because it is. This isn't a professional product. No one on the admin team is paid to do what they do, this isn't a job or service that's being provided.This a volunteer ran, collaborative art project by hobbyists.
Which isn't to say there isn't a system of checks and balances, it's just something that is looser and more fluid than a government or corporate structure, and is a process that's largely not visible to the players.
RE: reddit - Witherael - 08-07-2022
(08-07-2022, 04:05 AM)Frank_Stein Wrote:(08-07-2022, 01:43 AM)Witherael Wrote: it feels overall unprofessional, and it was something i wanted to talk about, and get opinions on.
The reason it feels that way is because it is. This isn't a professional product. No one on the admin team is paid to do what they do, this isn't a job or service that's being provided.This a volunteer ran, collaborative art project by hobbyists.
Which isn't to say there isn't a system of checks and balances, it's just something that is looser and more fluid than a government or corporate structure, and is a process that's largely not visible to the players.
well, i say unprofessional largely because it comes across to me as an attempt to be formal and professional.
i already knew that most of the process is invisible, though due to some past work, i believe i get the gist of what happens, and not to be disrespectful at all, but it isnt really much. not to say that it doesnt work, but that it isnt really the way that i would do it, which obviously doesnt really matter. even so, i did want to state my opinion on the matter, though it may not seem like a matter to some.
RE: reddit - Kotlol - 08-07-2022
I look at this.. and I see one thing...
Forgetting this is all community run.
Thus the community "decides" things. NOT A COMPANY WHO HAS TO KEEP TO RULES AND SUCH.
So basicly everytime an admin or developer of goon has to talk.... that's their FREE TIME they are giving you. If they feel like you are "wasting their free time", they will ban you. So they are stricter, but also more loose with the rules, wich is great.
Iknew what I got into when I was joining Goon and what to do and what not to do from almost the start. I could do alot of things I find "funny" but if I do that, it isn't what the community wants. So yea....
This topic felt pointless.
RE: reddit - Witherael - 08-07-2022
(08-07-2022, 06:05 AM)Kotlol Wrote: I look at this.. and I see one thing...
Forgetting this is all community run.
Thus the community "decides" things. NOT A COMPANY WHO HAS TO KEEP TO RULES AND SUCH.
So basicly everytime an admin or developer of goon has to talk.... that's their FREE TIME they are giving you. If they feel like you are "wasting their free time", they will ban you. So they are stricter, but also more loose with the rules, wich is great.
Iknew what I got into when I was joining Goon and what to do and what not to do from almost the start. I could do alot of things I find "funny" but if I do that, it isn't what the community wants. So yea....
This topic felt pointless.
i disagree. im not aware of how exactly one becomes an admin, but it seems similar to how they choose new popes, being that those already in power choose from among themselves, with the idea that they could always choose anyone below them. obviously, they dont.
RE: reddit - DioChasek - 08-07-2022
(08-07-2022, 06:29 AM)Witherael Wrote:(08-07-2022, 06:05 AM)Kotlol Wrote: I look at this.. and I see one thing...
Forgetting this is all community run.
Thus the community "decides" things. NOT A COMPANY WHO HAS TO KEEP TO RULES AND SUCH.
So basicly everytime an admin or developer of goon has to talk.... that's their FREE TIME they are giving you. If they feel like you are "wasting their free time", they will ban you. So they are stricter, but also more loose with the rules, wich is great.
Iknew what I got into when I was joining Goon and what to do and what not to do from almost the start. I could do alot of things I find "funny" but if I do that, it isn't what the community wants. So yea....
This topic felt pointless.
i disagree. im not aware of how exactly one becomes an admin, but it seems similar to how they choose new popes, being that those already in power choose from among themselves, with the idea that they could always choose anyone below them. obviously, they dont.
Literally watched a player go from normie, to mentor, to admin quite recently. You wanna know a couple things they look for? People who are willing to go out of their way to teach new players, who also don’t cause a lot of grief, and are willing to put others enjoyment of the game over their own.
RE: reddit - Kotlol - 08-07-2022
From what I know... Admins are trusted people in the community and mostly had positive expirences with those players.
The most recent one I know is Cal and I met them in the game as a very dangerous antag player, but they taught alot of good things and were mostly lax on their behaviour, abit blunt but I appriciate his honesty.
He was a mentor as well around that time.
So becoming an admin means you are known in the community as a positive person and not someone who will cause grief.
I for one would love to be an admin to do silly events, but I have no high mastery of the game, am not the most well known player and not even a mentor on that.
I also think I would fail as an admin on these kinda issues.
But mostly what Diochasek says is true. I have NEVER had a bad expirence with an admin, infact I once was warned as well... and it was deserved even though i thought I was doing right.
RE: reddit - Witherael - 08-07-2022
(08-07-2022, 06:59 AM)DioChasek Wrote:(08-07-2022, 06:29 AM)Witherael Wrote:(08-07-2022, 06:05 AM)Kotlol Wrote: I look at this.. and I see one thing...
Forgetting this is all community run.
Thus the community "decides" things. NOT A COMPANY WHO HAS TO KEEP TO RULES AND SUCH.
So basicly everytime an admin or developer of goon has to talk.... that's their FREE TIME they are giving you. If they feel like you are "wasting their free time", they will ban you. So they are stricter, but also more loose with the rules, wich is great.
Iknew what I got into when I was joining Goon and what to do and what not to do from almost the start. I could do alot of things I find "funny" but if I do that, it isn't what the community wants. So yea....
This topic felt pointless.
i disagree. im not aware of how exactly one becomes an admin, but it seems similar to how they choose new popes, being that those already in power choose from among themselves, with the idea that they could always choose anyone below them. obviously, they dont.
Literally watched a player go from normie, to mentor, to admin quite recently. You wanna know a couple things they look for? People who are willing to go out of their way to teach new players, who also don’t cause a lot of grief, and are willing to put others enjoyment of the game over their own.
ok, but who specifically chooses new mentors and admins? this is the video that i learned the pope thing from, watch it for yourself.
https://youtu.be/kF8I_r9XT7A
RE: reddit - DioChasek - 08-07-2022
(08-07-2022, 03:57 PM)Witherael Wrote:Thats great I grew up catholic. I know how popes are chosen(08-07-2022, 06:59 AM)DioChasek Wrote:(08-07-2022, 06:29 AM)Witherael Wrote:(08-07-2022, 06:05 AM)Kotlol Wrote: I look at this.. and I see one thing...
Forgetting this is all community run.
Thus the community "decides" things. NOT A COMPANY WHO HAS TO KEEP TO RULES AND SUCH.
So basicly everytime an admin or developer of goon has to talk.... that's their FREE TIME they are giving you. If they feel like you are "wasting their free time", they will ban you. So they are stricter, but also more loose with the rules, wich is great.
Iknew what I got into when I was joining Goon and what to do and what not to do from almost the start. I could do alot of things I find "funny" but if I do that, it isn't what the community wants. So yea....
This topic felt pointless.
i disagree. im not aware of how exactly one becomes an admin, but it seems similar to how they choose new popes, being that those already in power choose from among themselves, with the idea that they could always choose anyone below them. obviously, they dont.
Literally watched a player go from normie, to mentor, to admin quite recently. You wanna know a couple things they look for? People who are willing to go out of their way to teach new players, who also don’t cause a lot of grief, and are willing to put others enjoyment of the game over their own.
ok, but who specifically chooses new mentors and admins? this is the video that i learned the pope thing from, watch it for yourself.
https://youtu.be/kF8I_r9XT7A
. I also find that to be an incredibly disingenuous comparison as the two are vastly different organizations. But if you really need more info on admin structure on Goon here you go. https://wiki.ss13.co/Admin
RE: reddit - Witherael - 08-07-2022
(08-07-2022, 08:32 PM)DioChasek Wrote:(08-07-2022, 03:57 PM)Witherael Wrote:Thats great I grew up catholic. I know how popes are chosen(08-07-2022, 06:59 AM)DioChasek Wrote:(08-07-2022, 06:29 AM)Witherael Wrote:(08-07-2022, 06:05 AM)Kotlol Wrote: I look at this.. and I see one thing...
Forgetting this is all community run.
Thus the community "decides" things. NOT A COMPANY WHO HAS TO KEEP TO RULES AND SUCH.
So basicly everytime an admin or developer of goon has to talk.... that's their FREE TIME they are giving you. If they feel like you are "wasting their free time", they will ban you. So they are stricter, but also more loose with the rules, wich is great.
Iknew what I got into when I was joining Goon and what to do and what not to do from almost the start. I could do alot of things I find "funny" but if I do that, it isn't what the community wants. So yea....
This topic felt pointless.
i disagree. im not aware of how exactly one becomes an admin, but it seems similar to how they choose new popes, being that those already in power choose from among themselves, with the idea that they could always choose anyone below them. obviously, they dont.
Literally watched a player go from normie, to mentor, to admin quite recently. You wanna know a couple things they look for? People who are willing to go out of their way to teach new players, who also don’t cause a lot of grief, and are willing to put others enjoyment of the game over their own.
ok, but who specifically chooses new mentors and admins? this is the video that i learned the pope thing from, watch it for yourself.
https://youtu.be/kF8I_r9XT7A
ok, cut the fancy talk. all you need to say is its privately run and that if the admins are all liberal, then im just gonna have to suck it up.