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+--- Thread: Construction Worker's return (/showthread.php?tid=19314)
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Construction Worker's return - Kotlol - 07-20-2022
While removed from rotation due to RCD grieving. I think it's time for our favorite job to return...
WITHOUT THE RCD!
No matter what I think.. the RCD is suppose to be a CE only item...and only used in EMERGENCIES!
But there are alot of tools the construction worker has, that can be useful for bringing them back.
Yes I know the floor/wall planner is also a coveted item from QMs (or Donut 3 rushing), but that's not the only thing it has.
We have devices like the holographic planners, window planners, devices to mark things and more.
In my opinion there is nothing wrong with bringing back this job, since so many players want to build their own rooms again and decorate it.
Why not bring them back so the construction worker can build them or help them in this case?
Also it means the QM has less funds hassle when it comes to buying the Construction Crate no?
Just return it... and remove the RCD and focus them on using materials and tools to plan out rooms.
RE: Construction Worker's return - UrsulaMejor - 07-20-2022
The major problem with the construction worker is that it took half of the engineer's job away from them by creating a specific other job for doing it.
Engineers ARE construction personnel. You should focus on making construction more fun for them
RE: Construction Worker's return - Kotlol - 07-20-2022
(07-20-2022, 01:17 PM)UrsulaMejor Wrote: The major problem with the construction worker is that it took half of the engineer's job away from them by creating a specific other job for doing it.
Engineers ARE construction personnel. You should focus on making construction more fun for them
Okay I didn't know that part. I always figured they were that, but most stay in the engine room... So let's just add the tools of construction to them insted.
Just like Doctors can go Pharmacy, surgery and basic treatment basic. To nurses and EMTs.... why not Engineers as well?
"Sub classes without being sub classes"
So you got Engineer (Engine), engineer (maintance), Engineer (consturction) ,firefighter and such.
Just have the kits in engineering somewhere in closets of engineering.
Now we get more engineers actually willing to pick their job insted of mechanists who buy the kit from cargo and then build with it.
RE: Construction Worker's return - SvedkaMerc - 08-19-2022
I do wish the planners were more readily available to engineering.
Everything else boils down to people rarely asking engineering for anything unless there’s a breach and even then it’s 50/50 wether you get there before a borg.
People don’t play engineering for construction because people rarely ask for stuff so it can be kind of boring and no one asks for stuff because no one plays engineering for construction.
Firefighting is a really neat idea but fires would have to be more persistent.
RE: Construction Worker's return - Nihisohel - 08-19-2022
this always gets brought up every few months, at this point why even bother and just go back to past threads or historical discord messages
while i have no opinion on either side, i do think goonstruction is a bit pale compared to other servers, make that fun for us and lets see
RE: Construction Worker's return - Love - 08-20-2022
The problem with engineering is that it already feels like there's too little butter spread over too much bread.
Engineers already have basically zero things to do with their time after the engine is running.
Mechanics are already a make-your-own fun engineering role that basically overlap heavily with a construction worker. Without the RCD, a construction worker is basically just a budget mechanic.
Construction workers going away was basically a non-issue once we got the ability to order the floor and wall designer thing. Though I wouldn't really be against one starting in Mechanics or something. Or the CE's quarters, so someone can ask for it.
Feels like we should be finding things for Engineering to be doing, rather than adding more roles to what little there is to do as-is.
RE: Construction Worker's return - Kotlol - 08-21-2022
This got necro'd how about this? Have this kid be somewhere on station like Donut 3 (or the former sea turtle)
Like engineering has a "Construction closet" from now on.
RE: Construction Worker's return - Kamikaze Mongoose - 08-23-2022
I'm down for this if only to get a wall planner easier. This got removed because of the bullshit items and access he spawned with, so we take those away and they're as useful as any other goon picking up a metal sheet to go and fix things. Why not just rename them Decorator or Interior Designer with a wall planner and Botany access for flower arrangements?
Engineers won't feel threatened and they can continue to ignore station damage in peace while decorating gets easier.
RE: Construction Worker's return - Retrino - 08-23-2022
construction is in a weird place of being very quick (comparatively) as opposed to deconstruction, which takes absolute ages. manually taking down a reinforced wall only to find the person on the other side already built ten more is agonizing
yet at the same time trying to build anything on server one seems to be next to impossible, by the time you structure a build the shuttle is 10 minutes away from being called. just very ugh, rcdd was a blessing for people who actually wanted to build, engineers do get a boost in speed which is nice but still just. not a great time
RE: Construction Worker's return - Lord_earthfire - 08-24-2022
(07-20-2022, 01:17 PM)UrsulaMejor Wrote: The major problem with the construction worker is that it took half of the engineer's job away from them by creating a specific other job for doing it.
Engineers ARE construction personnel. You should focus on making construction more fun for them
Except that their main job (powering the station) is sometimes maintaince or work intensive.
I can only really count on engineers being able to help me with my room shenanigans when they decided to settle for a charburn or the singulo is up and running. I can forget it if they try a pipe/hellburn or if we're on oshan.
And when i got my hands on an engineer, i also need a mechanic, because the electric devices embedded in walls are an absolute hell to get replaced/removed.
Having a job (1 slot would een be enough) at hand that is avaible at round start for any building shenanigans would enable other departments to think about how to expand their departments. It's like having a mechanic coming over at round start to get your stuff scanned and mayne deliver some auxiliary equipment.
RE: Construction Worker's return - Kotlol - 08-24-2022
(08-24-2022, 12:09 AM)Lord_earthfire Wrote:(07-20-2022, 01:17 PM)UrsulaMejor Wrote: The major problem with the construction worker is that it took half of the engineer's job away from them by creating a specific other job for doing it.
Engineers ARE construction personnel. You should focus on making construction more fun for them
Except that their main job (powering the station) is sometimes maintaince or work intensive.
I can only really count on engineers being able to help me with my room shenanigans when they decided to settle for a charburn or the singulo is up and running. I can forget it if they try a pipe/hellburn or if we're on oshan.
And when i got my hands on an engineer, i also need a mechanic, because the electric devices embedded in walls are an absolute hell to get replaced/removed.
Having a job (1 slot would een be enough) at hand that is avaible at round start for any building shenanigans would enable other departments to think about how to expand their departments. It's like having a mechanic coming over at round start to get your stuff scanned and mayne deliver some auxiliary equipment.
Let's not forget that alot of mechanics love experimenting like it's science.
Sure sometimes they make a teleport system.
And sometimes they wire a complete disco.
But when you need em, 9/10 it takes 15 mins to get em to do something. Yet when you call an engineer it's more 8/10 they show up within 5 mins. And most of the time it's an engiborg.
On RP especially i see mechanics working with 1 player to make something big wich is need, but the other mechanics are just not responding or keep redirecting me. Leading to the AI coming as an Engiborg to fix the wiring with my help.
Anyhow that's a mechanic rant. I am fine with a construction worker becoming interior design.
RE: Construction Worker's return - Zamujasa - 08-28-2022
honestly i'd like to see a move towards the removal of mechanics as a "clone other devices" job and more of its own thing with the focus on components and the like, with the manufacturing of new devices being baked into a new system
if you've played other codebases, something of the machine frame + board system, which would allow for finer tweaking than the device analyzer / blueprints allow (esp given that they just randomly pick mats out of iron/glass/copper)
i personally miss the construction worker deeply but construction in general is just fucked. i think the problem with cw grief is more of a player culture thing than a problem with the tool itself. i have been on other codebases where the rcd is available as standard kit to engineering and easily printable / refillable with normal iron/glass materials and it doesn't get abused in the same ways at all despite being more powerful
i don't think that the rcd should be a ce only item or be only "for emergencies". it's the one and only way to make large changes in a timely manner. manual building is incredibly slow. borgs also get an rcd with infinite charges and are thus far superior to human builders already
but i'm biased. construction and building things is one of my favorite features of this game
RE: Construction Worker's return - Kotlol - 08-28-2022
(08-28-2022, 01:56 AM)Zamujasa Wrote: honestly i'd like to see a move towards the removal of mechanics as a "clone other devices" job and more of its own thing with the focus on components and the like, with the manufacturing of new devices being baked into a new system
if you've played other codebases, something of the machine frame + board system, which would allow for finer tweaking than the device analyzer / blueprints allow (esp given that they just randomly pick mats out of iron/glass/copper)
i personally miss the construction worker deeply but construction in general is just fucked. i think the problem with cw grief is more of a player culture thing than a problem with the tool itself. i have been on other codebases where the rcd is available as standard kit to engineering and easily printable / refillable with normal iron/glass materials and it doesn't get abused in the same ways at all despite being more powerful
i don't think that the rcd should be a ce only item or be only "for emergencies". it's the one and only way to make large changes in a timely manner. manual building is incredibly slow. borgs also get an rcd with infinite charges and are thus far superior to human builders already
but i'm biased. construction and building things is one of my favorite features of this game
Maybe there is grief but it isn't as constant? But Goon does have a history of grievers abusing something to ends and back wich I don't get. I remember the Virology days..... While on other codebases they have Xenobiology and Virology just fine.
Personal theory? Goon is abit smaller in station sizes and allows more goofier antics from non antags like growing weed.
Security is overall more chill and won't smack you the moment you go wrong, so people think they can get away with goofy things and when they get punished...
"OOH REALLY HUH!? MY THING IS BAD?! WELL TIME TO DESTROY THINGS"
And some just find it funny to cause wide spread chaos when not antag cause "Chaos funny right?"
But seriously as a det/sec player, I had my FAIR SHARE of salty players (mostly staff assistants) that start becoming outright hostile when I bust them on something illegal and I just warn them. Then they get arrested cause they escalate and start complaining about how unfair the game is and bla bla bla. Mostly ends up with an Ahelp.
Even now I seen the classic "I am going to remove all floor tiles with my crowbar" player several times.
Another methode we can get it back the way it was is by Unlock by expirence like the Captain or White list like HoS/NTSO
RE: Construction Worker's return - babayetu83 - 08-29-2022
why not make like a VR construction funzone
RE: Construction Worker's return - Lord_earthfire - 08-29-2022
(08-28-2022, 01:56 AM)Zamujasa Wrote: I personally miss the construction worker deeply but construction in general is just fucked. i think the problem with cw grief is more of a player culture thing than a problem with the tool itself. i have been on other codebases where the rcd is available as standard kit to engineering and easily printable / refillable with normal iron/glass materials and it doesn't get abused in the same ways at all despite being more powerful
Often higher standards on etiquette often enable the implementation of more wicked/overpowered stuff.
Because i ony recently came in contact with goon, i would need to ask: was the griefing problem prevalent on RP as well?