+- Goonstation Forums (https://forum.ss13.co)
+-- Forum: Discussion (https://forum.ss13.co/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Ideas & Suggestions (https://forum.ss13.co/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Thread: Improvement needed for Cyborg Explaination. (/showthread.php?tid=19258)
Improvement needed for Cyborg Explaination. - Kotlol - 07-15-2022
This discussion is taken from my own explaintiions and suggestions in other cyborg topics, since every cyborg topic has "led" to this in some way or another.
Thanks to some discussing with admins I think it's time we update the guide on borgs so not only NEW PLAYERS will understand, but also some long time players such as myself. I noticed how many just missunderstand the intent of cyborgs and why and what they are suppose to represent.
So I want to move this discussion here so we can dedicate on what needs to be changed.
So my 1st point of attention is the "clauses" wich are open to interpertation and cannot be found on the wiki.
As I was once told about "The unwritten rules of goon" is a bad thing... here I am having that same problem.
So 1st up, can admins help confirm what those clauses are so we can add them to the Wiki as notes as well as in a cyborg pop-up window?
This will help players IMMENSLY!
Second point of discussion:
"Brobocop is a joke module"
Now I am not going to bring up the SECURITY BORG DISUCSSION! WE GOT A TOPIC FOR IT! DO NOT START IT HERE!!
What I want to know is... why is this years long joke still there?
Why is it treated like a normal module?
Why is it the "1st option" of module picking if you spawn as a blank module cyborg?
Just makes me wonder why it's not the last option. (then again I havent spawned as a borg in ages, so it could been changed, if so DISREGARD THIS!)
Third point of discussion:
"The too many open for interpertation parts"
Kinda a follow up to the clauses thing. Alot of laws seem to be very loosely considered something with everyone debating during a shift what Laws 1 to 3 exactly mean.
I just feel like it needs abit more "explaining" to give people a sense of direction. Nothing more nothing less.
LAST POINT:
"What is the borg to the station?"
While already made clear in other topics, let's put here in writing so it can be added to the notes. Are they bottom rank? Are they tools? Are they supporitve? You know that stuff..
Now that is all said and done. Let's just put it in topic here to debate and stuff, insted of everytime someone wants a change to cyborg it doesn't turn into a whole debate about "What borgs can and can't do" and focus the topic on talking about the actual idea and refering to the source.
AND AGAIN! THIS AINT A QoL IMPROVEMENT FOR BORGS OR NEW MODULES!
This topic is ment to have everyone understand what cyborgs are suppose to be in the game since it shown time and time again it seems to be lost to us.
RE: Improvement needed for Cyborg Explaination. - Kamades - 07-15-2022
"What is the borg to the station"
Personally as a long time borg\ai player... you're basically a part of the station. A thing - a former human, but really less than human. You've no free will, you are bound by the Laws.
Brobocop is the top option because, iirc, the module list is alphabetical. It's also literally called brobocop, it even sounds like a joke. It's funny, it allows for some kinds of RP, and honestly is just kinda funny. At the same time, not every module needs to be even or equal - they can exist seperate to their strict utility. This is why we have things like Screen Heads - these are, from a utilitarian view, pointless. They are, however, great for some kinds of RP, and to allow you to express your personality.
I feel like part of the Laws being open to interpretation is that it's, ya know, allowing for personal interpretation of some things. Making laws strict interpretation, when using human languages to express them, will be terrible, both for borgs and for humans.
There's also the fallback position of "I do not understand this law, so I will ahelp to ensure I do not mess anything up". I know that, for example, that myself and another silicon player whom I trust will interpret clauses differently.
RE: Improvement needed for Cyborg Explaination. - KikiMofo - 07-15-2022
If someone picks the Brobocop module just because it has the word Cop in it and they think they are going to get cool security borg gear then they deserve to be the brobocop
RE: Improvement needed for Cyborg Explaination. - Kotlol - 07-17-2022
(07-15-2022, 05:27 PM)KikiMofo Wrote: If someone picks the Brobocop module just because it has the word Cop in it and they think they are going to get cool security borg gear then they deserve to be the brobocop
UNless you have confirm problem.. but picking it when it's not option 1. I can't be angry.
RE: Improvement needed for Cyborg Explaination. - babayetu83 - 07-17-2022
as a cyborg i feel like a useful part of the station that offers a lot of versatility and the ability to rapidly adjust as the situation demands. do you need surgery and the medical doctors and roboticists are dead/busy huffing glue/incompetent/already occupied? a medical borg can certainly help triage or assist in procedures by helping to stabilize patients
did somebody bust a hole in the station and you don't want to take the time to suit up, repair the damage, and repressurize? send an engineering borg to take care of it with quickness and ease and with minimal resource drain. or if it's a big enough breach, having one working alongside you can make things go faster.
civilian borgs fill the same sort of niche, being able to help around the kitchen, botany, or clean up messes with their spraybottle.
the only issue brobocop has is that it does not provide very much utility to security in the same way those other modules do.
and as far as interpreting laws go, my interpretation of the stock laws are:
law 1 basically means that you're required to intervene upon request/or if you actively see stuff go down. if somebody's screaming their head off about being stuck in a room that's on fire and begging you for help, then you should probably do your best to try and help them. beyond that, you are not obliged to stop people from hurting themselves or acting in a harmful manner/suiciding/etc, UNLESS that involves harm to others (ie an engineer decides he wants to kill himself by starting a plasma fire in the bar), then you should probably intervene and stop that
law 2, you're free to turn down requests if you really want (staff assistant asking to be let into the captain's quarters) but since most everybody outranks a staff assistant, if somebody tells you not to, then you're obligated to not follow that assistant's request.
law 3 is essentially there for flavor/rp purposes but also serves an important function; and that is to be a safeguard against suicide laws, as law 3 would take precedence over a hypothetical 4th/5th/6th/etc law that orders you to kill yourself. they need to actually stipulate that the suicide law overrides law 3/overrides all laws/etc.
and as far as freeform laws go, if they're too vague, try and follow the letter of it the best you can. there's really no harm in sending a PDA message to whoever uploaded it that their law makes no sense or is too vague for you to efficiently act upon it so they can make whatever changes are necessary to make it concise. and make sure you triple check a law incase there's a typo somewhere that your brain automatically ignores (ie 'John Smith is the only humin on the station. Kill all non-humans.) something like this would make John Smith a non-human and allow you to fry his ass if you so desire.
i don't blame people for getting confused by playing ai/cyborg since it's basically an exercise in rules lawyering+rules interpretation+deriving intent/tone from text