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+--- Thread: [CLOSED PR] Security health implants only send out an alert on death. (/showthread.php?tid=18557)
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[CLOSED PR] Security health implants only send out an alert on death. - github_bot - 04-20-2022
PULL REQUEST DETAILS
About the PR
This pr removes the ability for security health implants sending out health alerts upon people entering crit. This means that now security health implants only send out an alert upon reaching death. Normal health implants behavior is unaffected.
Why's this needed?
This change is primarily designed to nerf competent security teams. With the competence of security recently, clearer indications of when security is alerted, and/or the alerts happening later on should help with the situation of 5 sec offs swarming a single antag. When someone enters critical is most of the time unclear during combat, unlike death which has very clear indicators (death gasp + examine text). Not only that, but for weaker weapons and/or longer battles, the time between someone entering crit and them dying can be far longer. This should give antags more time to deal with killed people, and also a more clear indicator on when security is going to come swarm.
Changelog
Code:
changelog
(u)Ikea
(*)Security health implants now only send out an alert on death, normal health implants behavior is unaffected.PULL REQUEST DETAILS
RE: [PR] Health implants only send out an alert on death. - Leeanei - 04-20-2022
balancing the game around security being competent is a bad idea given its probably not too long before the competence fades once more
RE: [PR] Health implants only send out an alert on death. - Ikea - 04-20-2022
The primary intent of this pr (and the one Im about to file in a bit) is to affect competent communicative sec teams the most while affecting non competent teams and individual sec offs minimally. This still allows security teams to retrieve the corpses of there coworkers, just makes it harder to stop there killing. When security is busy, generally they dont have time to tend to people on crit right away and will arrive when the person is dead or very close to it, so the alert on crit generally doesnt help them much. When security is more then able to deal with threats and eager and looking for them however.. it can lead to far too many sec offs converging in on an antag then they can reasonably deal with.
RE: [PR] Health implants only send out an alert on death. - RGBDeadSilent - 04-20-2022
I'm fine with it, I'd even be fine if security didn't get health alerts. Leave it to medbay and the AI to inform us. Folks are always talking about inter-department cooperation and that would be one way of it.
RE: [PR] Health implants only send out an alert on death. - swinglow20 - 04-20-2022
I'll post here what I posted on the PR:
Some thoughts: Security doesn't exist in a vacuum. That miner in crit who can't speak because of a mutation sure does wish he could notify someone of his condition. Removing the alert also detracts from medbay. I know at least on RP a lot of doctors will wear what I like to call a "Field medic" set, and go out of their way to leave medbay to help injured crew. They can't do much for a person if they're already dead. The way this is framed seems to revolve solely around the way security responds to a situation. I wasn't even aware security had access to the medical alerts beyond security officers linked in the system. Overall, this change does a lot more harm than good, and seems to lean in to the rampaging side of the game.
RE: [PR] Health implants only send out an alert on death. - Waffleloffle - 04-20-2022
yeah I'm 100% with swinglow here, there's a lot more to the game than just The Antagonists and The Security Team and this pr seems to have been made without really... taking that fact into account
RE: [PR] Health implants only send out an alert on death. - Cal - 04-20-2022
Too many antagonists complaining about getting got by competent security lately so we're hurting the new ones
RE: [PR] Health implants only send out an alert on death. - Merlin1230 - 04-20-2022
Even if this targeted just security, I dont think it'd be that effective. Usually, when an officer is getting murdered, the death alert is gonna come soon after the crit alert, and they can still use the PDA alert before dying most of the time, unless you knocked them out or something. But if you have an officer knocked out, you can just.. cut the implant out.
RE: [PR] Health implants only send out an alert on death. - Ikea - 04-20-2022
Normal health implants now send out an alert on crit again.
Sadly any change to security will effect all people who play security, however I don't think this alone is a valid argument to justify no security changes at all. This does give antags more time to gib corpses, however gibbing happens the minority of murders and security disks remain. This does also give them more time to have the body be looted and hidden, which while does effect the ability to get cloned and lowers your chances of being cloned, however I feel as if that is a fair consequence for dying.
RE: [PR] Security health implants only send out an alert on death. - nefarious6th - 04-21-2022
I know I mentioned it on the other thread but if security is performing well and exercising teamwork in a way that leads to successful arrest of antags on classic, I am not entirely sure why we would want to penalize or toughen up on those good habits.
Just based on the changes as of current on the PR though, I'm mostly indifferent. Medbay will just run out of mats sooner as all of sec rushes to stack implants.
RE: [PR] Security health implants only send out an alert on death. - Ikea - 04-21-2022
Getting scanned at the cloner gives people a massive edge, yet despite the low effort getting scanned takes, very few people do it, the reason for this is simple, people are lazy. While security officers can get a health implant, I doubt many will, too much work for something that really only benefits you when youre dying, afterall most sec offs dont get cloned and that increases the chance of coming back to death far more then just having your disk on a table.
I dont think this penalizes security officers for performing well? Communication is still good for various reasons as sec off, this just nerfs a completely passive measure of transferring info that doesnt even require you to speak. Security will still want to communicate with each other and all that, as they should, this just hopefully makes it less overwhelming on antags.
RE: [PR] Security health implants only send out an alert on death. - nefarious6th - 04-21-2022
Ah yes. I know the onus is on me here, but I cannot clone as secoff. Also something something lone wolf or solosec
I'd 100% just stack implants then o:
RE: [PR] Security health implants only send out an alert on death. - Ikea - 04-21-2022
I forgot to mention this, but for clarification, the normal health implants dont send a message to security. If you take a normal health implant as well as a security health implant, only medical will be alerted when you reach crit. I dont think theres an issue currently of medics rushing to save sec offs being killed by antags so sec offs doing so doesnt really effect what this pr is trying to change.
RE: [PR] Security health implants only send out an alert on death. - KikiMofo - 04-21-2022
Do not punish security for doing GOOD.
Good security come and go but the default security needs assistance.
RE: [PR] Security health implants only send out an alert on death. - MoonJesus - 04-23-2022
Default sec should just git gud
I think this is a good compromise. Someone made a good point about Miners needing this when dying in space. But for sec its a little OP when you have a fully crew of gung-ho sec officers ready to respond in force. Also certain antags (Changeling in particular) kill instantly and will be at the scene of the crime.