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+--- Thread: Add a toggle to the typing chat overlay (/showthread.php?tid=17378)
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Add a toggle to the typing chat overlay - Firebarrage - 10-24-2021
Recently a chat overlay was added to indicate characters are typing something. A small chat bubble appears showing that the player is typing some message in and will presumably enter it shortly.
This is a change I've seen discussed many times from a coder perspective, and every time it was decided it shouldn't be implemented because of significant metagaming concerns. I don't think this has changed, and all of the issues brought up then still exist. Briefly, because it shows you are typing anyone trying to attack you knows that you will respond significantly slower than normal, and that it is a good time to attack. Whoever is typing doesn't have their hands on their mouse and cannot reasonably respond to any quick attacks (e.g. saber, baton, katana) fast enough to make a difference.
I'm someone who plays security often, as in most rounds. From my perspective this change makes it a risk to interact with people near me, as it obviously and visually shows that I cannot react quickly to an attack. If this is going to be in game, it should have a toggle off option for players that want to avoid this risk. This allows players who want others to see they are planning to reply to do so, but lets players avoid any metagaming issues from this feature.
RE: Add a toggle to the typing chat overlay - Cal - 10-24-2021
Meta-metagame them back by pretending to type and just kick their ass when they move in tbh
In all seriousness this is a fantastic rp feature that I think doesn't work so well on main? Ultimately up to y'all main players and the mins
RE: Add a toggle to the typing chat overlay - Firebarrage - 10-24-2021
Oh sure its fantastic on RP. I guess i neglected to state that as a bonus and one of the reasons I guess it shouldn't be removed totally. But yeah, while it may be nice on RP it can cause serious issues on main
RE: Add a toggle to the typing chat overlay - mbc - 10-24-2021
i'm not sure if i really like the idea of the toggle - not that i disagree with the logic here
your idea fixes the stated issue but it basically puts anyone who chooses to use this feature at a disadvantage. (which i think would kind of suck, becuase it feels like I am caught between wanting my character to have this feature to make the game more legible for other players, but not wanting to suffer in combat situations relative to other players)
i would like to think about other solutions? I wonder if there are any other online games that have tried to address the mechanic of attacking someone while they are typing.
one that comes to my mind is adding an auto-retaliate mechanic? Nothing too crazy, but maybe something where your character will automatically perform some one-time action (like a disarm, or a step) that blunts the disadvantage of being type-attacked and forces the chat window closed automatically. (assume the hypothetical retaliation is bugfree and not exploitable, ok)
RE: Add a toggle to the typing chat overlay - Ikea - 10-24-2021
Could honestly simply toss in an ifdef rp_mode if you dont want to bother with classic balance but still have the qol presented by it.
RE: Add a toggle to the typing chat overlay - Zamujasa - 10-25-2021
if you really don't want to give away the fact that you're typing, use the command bar at the bottom
you can also fake someone out by pushing t, then clicking on the game window. in fact, if you move the window that pops up, you can even place it somewhere out of the way (e.g. near the bottom of the screen above your inventory) and just leave it there for a while
Quote:This is a change I've seen discussed many times from a coder perspective, and every time it was decided it shouldn't be implemented because of significant metagaming concerns.
news to me, as someone who has seen this start to proliferate across other codebases, seen it asked about when we would get it here repeatedly, and then had several people in the discord get extremely excited over it being a thing finally
RE: Add a toggle to the typing chat overlay - Mouse - 10-25-2021
I was gonna say that yeah, using the say command in the bottom bar doesn't give the animation.
RE: Add a toggle to the typing chat overlay - THISISANICEGAME - 10-25-2021
Maybe getting attacked should focus you into the game and out of the window, idk if this can acctually be coded though.
RE: Add a toggle to the typing chat overlay - Zamujasa - 10-25-2021
back in ye olde days that was actually a thing and you can still see it if you enable the 'chat' button. if you were typing in the bar to say something it would cut you off with a "--BLURGH" at the end of your message or whatever
you can still see this occasionally from the odd person who uses it, but i don't think it can work quite the same way without a reworking of how speech input is done entirely
(note that this may be a thing on /tg/? code, which uses skin/window controls to create a textbox client-side mostly-lagless textbox, but i don't know how it works beyond the absolute basics)
RE: Add a toggle to the typing chat overlay - Kelpo - 10-25-2021
turn off hotkey mode to type stuff in,TAB"say "blabla(someone attacking you)TAB *kick their ass*
RE: Add a toggle to the typing chat overlay - Leeanei - 10-25-2021
Tbh I'd rather if people just knew typing time was not a time to attack someone. Type baiting, even on Classic, makes the social aspect of the game worse and this game lives on its social aspect.
RE: Add a toggle to the typing chat overlay - Crystalwarrior - 10-25-2021
(10-25-2021, 04:54 AM)Leeanei Wrote: Tbh I'd rather if people just knew typing time was not a time to attack someone. Type baiting, even on Classic, makes the social aspect of the game worse and this game lives on its social aspect.
It's often the best time to attack, though. Asking a question to follow up with an attack is your best chance to kick someone's ass especially if you'll die in 99% other situations should you be unrobust.
Plus there's an enormous amount of ways to counter-play this strategy: put a wall/glass between you and whoever you're talking to, ask them to talk to you over PDA, don't talk to someone alone in a dark hallway close to disposals, or with this change you can even bait them into attacking you when the typing bubble appears.
In fact I think the appearance of a typing bubble actually puts control in the guy who's TYPING, as now you can counter-bait someone by pretending to type only to whip out a baton and slam their ass at a time they don't expect.
The social aspect of the game improves because now this strategy of type-baiting will become less effective over time as people learn the strats - meaning antags will have to find more creative ways to catch people off-guard. Or simply stealth their way - stealth is a very intentional aspect of the game's design, and there's very little social aspect in applying a neurotox sting and choking them out in a dark maintenance shaft, or using garrotte for the same effect.
This game's biggest strength is in organically supporting a multitude of play styles rather than just catering to one single demographic - so why should players be punished for playing the game that's not against the rules, and directly encouraged by the mechanics?
RE: Add a toggle to the typing chat overlay - zjdtmkhzt - 10-25-2021
I don't think adding a toggle for this is a good idea, seeing as it would be kind of powergamey to switch it on, and it'd be kind of weird to have it on some people and not others.
Personally, I don't see the issue with people attacking while someone is typing, it's been a strategy before this change, and it makes sense that appearing friendly at first may catch someone off their guard. If the person is already suspicious, they'll be able to close their chat window very quickly.
RE: Add a toggle to the typing chat overlay - Zamujasa - 10-25-2021
attacking while someone is typing is literally the game version of using a "hey what's that behind you" distraction imo
RE: Add a toggle to the typing chat overlay - Cal - 10-25-2021
i was joking earlier. but just use it for mindgames. just press t and attack them. or put up your barrier special. or throw a grenade. anything to make them let their guard down. its the equivalent of opening your mouth like you're about to say something
for YEARS people have already gone "hey wheres medbay" and immediately ling stung or attacked someone and so on. nothing has changed.