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+--- Thread: [OPEN PR] Silicons can no longer see level 2 invisibility by default (/showthread.php?tid=16996)
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[OPEN PR] Silicons can no longer see level 2 invisibility by default - Zonespace - 08-26-2021
[FEATURE] [BALANCE] [INPUT WANTED]
## About the PR
Silicons (AI and Cyborgs specifically) no longer have tier 2 invisibility vision, making them unable to see cloaking devices. However, they still maintain tier 1 invisibility vision, making them capable of still seeing things like bloodlings or people cloaked via the chameleon trait (vision is on-par with lizards).
To counter this, cyborgs now have a new upgrade available in robotics fabricators (and brobocop spawns with it), the thermal optics upgrade. This upgrade gives them vision equivalent to a pair of thermal goggles, so they get tier 2 invisibility vision back, in addition to being able to see further in the dark. The module, of course, costs power, taking double of any other sight module.
## Why's this needed?
People were talking about it in the discord, I thought it'd be interesting to see the feedback on such a change. In addition, it makes brobocops a bit more helpful.
RE: [OPEN PR] Silicons can no longer see level 2 invisibility by default - kyle2143 - 08-26-2021
I can see that change for borgs. But not for the AI.
RE: [OPEN PR] Silicons can no longer see level 2 invisibility by default - aft2001 - 08-26-2021
I dislike this change if it applies to AI cameras, unless it requires the AI to somehow invest resources, time, effort, etc. into seeing people that are cloaked (but not overly so - toggling something on which takes a few seconds to enable or disable and makes your eye move more slowly and it immediately disables if you jump by clicking a distant tile or tracking someone far away). Though I agree with lowering the visibility for regular borgs, that makes sense, and requires the AI and borgs to coordinate to handle someone that's cloaked.
RE: [OPEN PR] Silicons can no longer see level 2 invisibility by default - Zamujasa - 08-26-2021
Cyborgs are generally the counter to cloaking, outside of thermal goggles, and only the Det and HoS get those. This would make it so that, in most cases, nobody would be able to see a cloaked person by default. Thermals also make you even more vulnerable to flashes, so all a cloaker would need to do is carry a flash around and they've basically countered everyone.
AI security cameras are also specifically equipped with thermal vision (though this description pre-dates the AI eye mechanic, when cameras really could see through walls):
Quote:This is a security camera.
A small, high quality camera with thermal, light-amplification, and diffused laser imaging to see through walls. It is tied into a computer system, allowing those with access to watch what occurs around it.
This is a nerf that I really don't see as being warranted.
RE: [OPEN PR] Silicons can no longer see level 2 invisibility by default - Lady Birb - 08-26-2021
Why DO thermals make you more vulnerable to flashes anyway?
RE: [OPEN PR] Silicons can no longer see level 2 invisibility by default - BatElite - 08-26-2021
From limited AI experience, whenever I've seen a cloaker and let sec know (whether vaguely or simply going "X has a cloaker") I've never seen it impact their actions much wrt trying to get thermals from the armoury/doing anything about the cloaker at all.
RE: [OPEN PR] Silicons can no longer see level 2 invisibility by default - Lady Birb - 08-26-2021
To give my thoughts on the actual PR, it would be nice if hunters could exist without being immediately bolted into a room by the AI. Maybe make thermals more accessible if this would make cloaker traitors too strong.
RE: [OPEN PR] Silicons can no longer see level 2 invisibility by default - Froggit_Dogget - 08-26-2021
theres a few extra pairs of thermals in the armory. IME, borgs usually ignore cloakers anyway, and its up to sec to catch them anyways. Though I will admit, I have a habit of sneaking into the armory for a pair of thermals whenever theres a cloaker. And when you have thermals, cloakers are super obvious, and wont be able to get away from ya. thermals on their own are insane, but then occasionally you do get a powergaming borg on you when your cloaked, and thats just awful.
RE: [OPEN PR] Silicons can no longer see level 2 invisibility by default - Ikea - 08-26-2021
Tbh this is overall great borg qol because thermal vision is super useful as it helps you to see better in the dark and you dont get all the fuckery with meson goggles. Regardless of balance i like the idea of a thermal vision module, id probably run it constantly
RE: [OPEN PR] Silicons can no longer see level 2 invisibility by default - Zonespace - 08-26-2021
My personal opinion on this change is that it's not really fun to spend half of your TC on a device, then get immediately bolted down and outed by a player you can't see, but can track your every move, cloaked or not.
RE: [OPEN PR] Silicons can no longer see level 2 invisibility by default - onetoughcreampuff - 08-26-2021
(08-26-2021, 03:11 PM)Zonespace Wrote: My personal opinion on this change is that it's not really fun to spend half of your TC on a device, then get immediately bolted down and outed by a player you can't see, but can track your every move, cloaked or not.
Furthermore it would be nice to have a way to know if the AI is watching, such as the cameras getting a small green light when the AI can see a tile in its range. Also maybe rather than TGs AIeye finder, which costs precious TC that you already spent on a cloaker, maybe have a constructable device which tells you if the Aieye is in camera view/tracking you/a screenlength away.
RE: [OPEN PR] Silicons can no longer see level 2 invisibility by default - unfunnyperson - 08-26-2021
(08-26-2021, 03:11 PM)Zonespace Wrote: My personal opinion on this change is that it's not really fun to spend half of your TC on a device, then get immediately bolted down and outed by a player you can't see, but can track your every move, cloaked or not.
This is more of a problem with ai in general.
RE: [OPEN PR] Silicons can no longer see level 2 invisibility by default - Frank_Stein - 08-26-2021
(08-26-2021, 10:38 AM)Zamujasa Wrote: Cyborgs are generally the counter to cloaking, outside of thermal goggles, and only the Det and HoS get those. This would make it so that, in most cases, nobody would be able to see a cloaked person by default.
Personally, I'd love more cloak counter methods. A method someone showed me once was placing broken glass on tiles they were likely to walk through so they'd make a sound when passing over it.
Maybe if they were standing in liquids or in clouds of smoke? Spray them with a fire extinguisher to coat them in visible foam?
RE: [OPEN PR] Silicons can no longer see level 2 invisibility by default - Lady Birb - 08-26-2021
questionable idea: make it so the bloodstain overlay doesn't turn invisible so you need to clean yourself off between murders or else people will see floating bloodstains in the shape of a person running around
RE: [OPEN PR] Silicons can no longer see level 2 invisibility by default - Cal - 08-26-2021
(08-26-2021, 08:11 PM)Lord Birb Wrote: questionable idea: make it so the bloodstain overlay doesn't turn invisible so you need to clean yourself off between murders or else people will see floating bloodstains in the shape of a person running around
love that