+- Goonstation Forums (https://forum.ss13.co)
+-- Forum: Discussion (https://forum.ss13.co/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Ideas & Suggestions (https://forum.ss13.co/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Thread: Contractor Role/Community Rework (/showthread.php?tid=16009)
Contractor Role/Community Rework - nefarious6th - 03-13-2021
Hello, I am here to get specifc and pointed feedback and ideas and help for what would all be nice additions to a sort of Contractor Role, a name suggested by Frank_Stein in a different thread. Generally, actionable things are better, things that are direct and clear-focused! The last paragraph on this about Paint is like an example, but if all you have is a seed of an idea you think would be cool, please don't feel discouraged from sharing just because it still needs some nurturing :+)
I don't really care about whatever else was before in the background of this related to CWorkers, I am instead looking for a ground-up way to build a role that is meant to work collaboratively between and within departments to utilize the sandbox capabilities of construction mechanics in the game to the fullest extent possible in a standard round. Whether that role did or didn't exist in the past on Goon doesn't matter; this is my goal currently because this seems to be something people want in the game, all around! It should be a role that offers flexible room for creativity in designing station areas but also fulfills a special and meaningful niche as a standalone role.
That's the mission statement! The thesis!
But what does that look like in terms of a coding-level application? Well, I don't know, that's why I made this thread for people's ideas and help with crafting a role like this. I honestly can't do this as a solo effort, my particular niche is in spriting and mapping, I can do Very Basic and Unimpressive coding things, and I'm terrible at striking gameplay balance! I'm also not very good at developing novel and specific ideas for New Content, so, yes, even Ideas People are very useful in this process because I do not have those Ideas!
People like the creativity and having a dedicated niche carved out for constructing and JUST constructing. Part of this is job expectations/demands (I believe fully Engineers are capable of construction; I see my role as being on the engine most of a round though). Part of this is ease of access to tools and departments (it is going to take a Staff Assistant an intractably longer amount of time to get a job transfer from the HoP-->gear/suit up if necessary-->convince QM or Mechanics of why they need specific materials or machines-->get to renovating or building, over someone with a dedicated role and gear for doing this stuff). The engine as of current has a significant learning curve; it's understandable people who choose engineer want to work with those mechanics and climb that curve, and that this group of people is going to be different (within the course of a round, not like, Fundamentally) from the people who want to renovate and make gift shops, cafes, pastry shops, etc.
So, working questions and ideas for now, stolen from Elsewhere:
- What if this role was two or three people so it was inherently collaborative? Would a slot need to be taken away from any other engineering department roles to accomodate this? Is this only a one-person slot and they need to be highly dependent upon QM and Mechanics?
- How could we introduce more turf customization options in a way that is unique and different from Floor/Wall planners? Should Floor/Wall planners be removed completely and a new system of tiles and wallpaper (again, tiles and wallpapers existing was Frank_Stein's idea, not mine) implemented? Can both of these exist in the same space?
- How much could we lean into specialized trades for things if at all? Is there room to have specific mechanics for something like ironworking or sculpting for decorative elements in a constructed space? Woodworking (thank you Soldat!) to make wooden furniture (cozy!)?
- What kinds of base materials if any would be provided? Do we just add more materials to the Engineering Storage rooms on various maps to account for construction work?
- Is this a Civilian Role or an Engineering one? How would it interact with other departments outside of buying things from QM or getting machines from Mechanics and potentially more materials to work with from Mining?
- Is there a unanimous consesus from the devs that what is essentially an in-round map-making/map-editing role is non-essential and there is no interest in seeing this come to the game?
- Are we facing a bigger problem of just having Bad Construction Mechanics on the whole? If so, what is making them bad?
- Is anyone doing anything else with a role like this that they think would be a better way forward?
Mapping-wise:
- There's literally nothing significant that even needs to be done for this kind of role; enough maps have enough open and dedicated spaces left with the intention of them being renovated
- Landmark spawns, I guess
- New jumpsuit and the kit and caboodle
- Wallpaper and tiles ?
- Other gear/buys and the states of them when applied to Things?
- More furniture options ?
- Literally everything and I don't know how to do more than make the actual role in the job datum, currently
- Is this a role suitable for roundstart? For the gimmick jobs section only? Should it be map dependent?
- Is this role suitable for antagonist? Does that conflict with the nature of cooperation mean to be a part of the role? Is the ability to modify the station in any manner too strong for that? What would traitor items look like for this (jackhammer? specialized Syndicate Hard Hat?)? How would traitor items for this function and what would they do?
- What is the roundstart gear of this role going to look like? Soldat said maybe something like a bag of holding for construction materials?
- Do they get a workbench location where they can stack more than 50 sheets of materials together? Could this dove-tail into MatSci as a full thing where there'd be an ability to transform materials of one type to another for different designs or looks?
And this is finally, really comprehensive and will probably take a Long Time, so keep that in mind.
---
This is another idea I just had! Paintable furniture? Maybe I sprite some pre-set paint jobs that can be applied to a special subtype of a desk/chair/bed/table/etc. and using a specific paint can color on it will transform it to show that paint job? Or maybe just make some white furniture variants available through...I dunno, material alchemy or something, and people can put a solid color of paint on that! I think that could be a fun mechanic and it ties into the Paint Machine nicely!
I've had my soup and some braincells recovered, so a slightly more fleshed-out thing on wallpaper and tiles:
Wallpaper: you get cotton or just fabric in general from botany (or steal bedsheets?) and apply a crayon or paint (maybe even make a specialized printmaking press device for this) and make your wallpaper color/pattern. Maybe even extracting pigments from different ores. Alternatively, or maybe another variant could be introducing plastic (plasteel...whatever) to the game as a material made through some reaction at chem dispensers, and then the same thing can happen with the color/print applications. Though I like the idea of linen-based papers for wallpaper since it makes cotton more useful and fosters an interesting and very different inter-departmental connection.
Tiles could be made from different ores, or maybe from clay. What if there was a way to collect Rocks and Dirt from different azones or asteroids? I am making some Rock and Dirt sprites right now for other things, including a handful of geode sprites. What if you could collect forms of minerals/ores from that that you then put into the Nanocrucible or a specialized kiln and bake into tiles?
RE: Contractor Role/Community Rework - Studenterhue - 03-13-2021
Just skimmed through the topic and want to mention real quick that the CE now has a special RCD (the RCD "custom") that does the same things the RCD deluxe can do (namely make doors with pre-loaded access) but with the material costs of the standard RCD ('cause remember the deluxe RCD gets reduced matter costs too). Just letting y'all know it's an option. If you think it's something the Construction Worker or whatever role you think of could use, it's there for you, but if you think that might be too powerful or whatever (said special CE RCD is inside a crate rather than on something the CE spawns with by the way), you're free to avoid it.
RE: Contractor Role/Community Rework - Rilor - 03-13-2021
my thoughts for the contractors ability to be an antag should be similar to the captain on RP, They cant be any antag except conspirator, and perhaps make the conspiracy objective a bit more skewed towards conspiracies related to construction when a contractor is one of the conspirators.
as for the rest of the suggestions: YES i love this idea, more furniture, more collaboration, reworking how changing walls and floors work, more decoration options (Possibility of ability to make statues without murdering something excites me) and something to replace conworker while still filling a similar niche
RE: Contractor Role/Community Rework - nefarious6th - 03-13-2021
(03-13-2021, 05:50 PM)Studenterhue Wrote: Just skimmed through the topic and want to mention real quick that the CE now has a special RCD (the RCD "custom") that does the same things the RCD deluxe can do (namely make doors with pre-loaded access) but with the material costs of the standard RCD ('cause remember the deluxe RCD gets reduced matter costs too). Just letting y'all know it's an option. If you think it's something the Construction Worker or whatever role you think of could use, it's there for you, but if you think that might be too powerful or whatever (said special CE RCD is inside a crate rather than on something the CE spawns with by the way), you're free to avoid it.
(03-13-2021, 06:57 PM)Rilor Wrote: my thoughts for the contractors ability to be an antag should be similar to the captain on RP, They cant be any antag except conspirator, and perhaps make the conspiracy objective a bit more skewed towards conspiracies related to construction when a contractor is one of the conspirators.
as for the rest of the suggestions: YES i love this idea, more furniture, more collaboration, reworking how changing walls and floors work, more decoration options (Possibility of ability to make statues without murdering something excites me) and something to replace conworker while still filling a similar niche
Thank you both for chiming in. I think understanding the updates that have been made to construction mechanics so far is very important so I'm appreciative of the extra boost for people to see it and I think the (golden) RCD can have a comfy home in the CE's Office. Fits with the golden wrench too!
I'm definitely down to sprite most of the stuff and make the code for the objects themselves (just not sure about the recipes/build process stuff). I was thinking about wallpapers for a while so once I move past some resprites of old things I will have some concept things done for expanded furniture options and wallpapers to share here. I think seeing what kinds of things I'm thinking about might help people start to put the pieces together on the fuller picture and come up with additional suggestions, so I'll try to get to that ASAP. :+)
RE: Contractor Role/Community Rework - Frank_Stein - 03-14-2021
I think what we could do is, have one job slot at round start and if it is filled additional jobs become open as late join
The default job could be something like "Foreman" that has the ability to unlock materials crates for construction and resdesign. They can organize effort or take things on their own.
A contractor as a late join brings in additional streamline tolls and materials so they can start right away