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+--- Thread: [CLOSED PR] Electronic Incompatibility Trait (/showthread.php?tid=15832)
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[CLOSED PR] Electronic Incompatibility Trait - github_bot - 02-05-2021
PULL REQUEST DETAILS
[Feature][Add to wiki][Input Wanted]
About the PR
This makes it so you cannot be borged by any means, or made an AI by any means, but you can still be cloned.
Why's this needed?
A lot of people would like to be cloned but really do not like to be borged, me included. I think this change would help people like me.
Changelog
(u) Reaper/Drewmajor11
(+) Added electronic Incompatibility Trait(0 points.)
PULL REQUEST DETAILS
RE: [PR] Electronic Incompatibility Trait - Drewmajor11 - 02-05-2021
This is mine, thanks @zjdtmkhzt for spending way too long helping me with this because I can barely function.
RE: [PR] Electronic Incompatibility Trait - zjdtmkhzt - 02-05-2021
I am glad something like this is getting added, it's about time!
Making borgings opt-out is really great, because lots of people dislike being borgs. I think just yesterday or something I heard another complaint by someone about being borged against their will, and I have heard admins say that some people even ask for silicon-bans.
So I think this would be a great addition!
RE: [PR] Electronic Incompatibility Trait - nefarious6th - 02-05-2021
Good first PR! Commonly pointed out thing for a lot of people that they just simply don't want to be borged. More agency for players in those decisions is always good, IMO. If someone would rather just be dead versus people taking the time and resources to try and borg them, then I think they should be given those tools. Less of a problem now but there's definitely occassional circumstances where weird things happen like roboticists AI people who don't wanna be AI'd but feel obligated to play because it's busy or whatever. I'd rather people get to play things they have fun in and avoid things they don't like as much!
RE: [PR] Electronic Incompatibility Trait - KikiMofo - 02-05-2021
Maybe this would be fine for RP but in normal goonstation once you are dead you don't get a choice as to what happens after wards. You already played your round and should be happy to be able to come back into the game as a borg. If you dont want to be borged then press the DNR button or pick Purist trait.
RE: [PR] Electronic Incompatibility Trait - nefarious6th - 02-05-2021
I do think the sentiment of "you get another chance" is very real for some players when they do go to borg people. It's meant as an extension of kindness to let someone continue in a round; but sometimes there is still incompatability in that the people being borged don't really want that. Some people have requested silicon bans, a number of players mention in Discord that they're uncomfortable with being borged and want people to remember as best they can to please just leave them be versus borging.
Does this matter as much now that silicons can voluntarily take themselves out of a round if they want? Maybe not. Giving more tools to players to control this kind of stuff seems nice, though. If they're puritans, that offers maybe one path of iredeemably dying and never coming back or having a Big Heroic Medical Save or being pretty much guaranteed to be borged (if anyone ever checked the records!). Or they can set DNR to ensure they're really never going to come back. Or they can come back as a ghost drone. Or observe. Or be a critter. Or go to VR or go to the bar. Or disconnect. Players, upon dying, already have a lot of agency and control over what happens afterwards. I really can't imagine this being much of a problem, it's just more like a "shortcut" to an already extensive process of 1.) someone dying and maybe before dying saying they would not like to be borged --> 2.) maybe we check their medical records or not, and they're puritan or we just decide to borg, who knows --> 3.) borging this person --> 4.) "Hey, I'm not happy here, please leave me alone!"/suicides or disconnects.
Does it add anything to Classic Goon strategy? Maybe not, that's why it's a 0 point trait, just like clerical error is!
RE: [PR] Electronic Incompatibility Trait - Nihisohel - 02-06-2021
In my opinion, its a tad bit unbalanced if it were to add trait points when used.
It essentially becomes a free trait to people on the classic servers where borging mostly never happens and powergamers tend to just suicide when they get borged either way.
It just become a defacto silicon ban with benefits if it was given a trait point when used adjacent.
Perhaps to counteract this, players with this trait cannot be borged AND use robot organs, where using robot organs in this trait automatically fails that organ. Plus, it gives more use to monkey bodies laying around medical.
RE: [PR] Electronic Incompatibility Trait - BatElite - 02-06-2021
It's a 0-point trait, and there's pretty frequent borging on the classic servers in my experience. Dunno how much anymore that robotics takes over reviving people when the cloner gets blown up though.
RE: [PR] Electronic Incompatibility Trait - Caro - 02-06-2021
(02-05-2021, 11:14 PM)KikiMofo Wrote: Maybe this would be fine for RP but in normal goonstation once you are dead you don't get a choice as to what happens after wards. You already played your round and should be happy to be able to come back into the game as a borg. If you dont want to be borged then press the DNR button or pick Purist trait.
Setting DNR also makes you unable to join as random event antags.
Imo, good trait, but I'd make it cost -1. People will treat not being able to be borged as an advantage, so I'd treat this trait as one.
RE: [PR] Electronic Incompatibility Trait - aft2001 - 02-06-2021
This is semi-related, but if this were to be added, could Puritan keep the brain intact no matter what for people who PREFER to be borged? As an avid silicon player I'd love to be borged more often and while being puritan could do that I'm a bit terrified of just... not being able to play anymore because my body gets destroyed. Or maybe just a Puritan alternative where you can't be scanned and the cloner suggests borging.... hm.
ok tangent over sorry Good PR please merge
RE: [PR] Electronic Incompatibility Trait - Flaborized - 02-06-2021
Don't really like how this trait would make someone immune to being made a borg by a traitor for nefarious purposes. Syndicate borgs, nanomachines, the syndicate conversion chamber and even to some extent regular brain surgery exist for traitors to be able to turn players into evil machines, and by introducing a (what I assume will be popular) trait nullifies the main draw of those. Also, as dead bodies with no brains *can* be cloned, this wouldn't really parallel puritan in the same way; it's not stopping you from being cloned if they try to borg you, thus it's a free way to say No to borging. And that would make it a very popular choice I think.
It's also a lot more work to make a borg for someone than it is to clone them, meaning it could potentially be really annoying to find out people have this *free* trait where it won't even work on them after putting in the effort. It's already annoying with braindead people, but this would be... more annoying! And I foresee people trying to use this trait as leverage when caught as an antag; Iit strips sec of the best way to stop an antag from being evil that's not Straight Up Murder in those cases, which I feel isn't good.
Overall due to These Things I think this trait is a bad idea that has many unintutive (imo)negative consequences! You can already set DNR if you really don't wanna be borged when you're dead; otherwise, it's part of the game!
RE: [PR] Electronic Incompatibility Trait - Lady Birb - 02-06-2021
if you don't want to be borged just suicide. law 3 is literally never enforced.
RE: [PR] Electronic Incompatibility Trait - Flaborized - 02-06-2021
note: Law 3 was recently rewritten to *let* you commit suicide if you want to. "You may always protect your own existence as long as such does not conflict with the First or Second Law." Important word there being 'may'.
RE: [PR] Electronic Incompatibility Trait - nefarious6th - 02-06-2021
(02-06-2021, 01:18 AM)Nihisohel Wrote: In my opinion, its a tad bit unbalanced if it were to add trait points when used.
It essentially becomes a free trait to people on the classic servers where borging mostly never happens and powergamers tend to just suicide when they get borged either way.
It just become a defacto silicon ban with benefits if it was given a trait point when used adjacent.
Perhaps to counteract this, players with this trait cannot be borged AND use robot organs, where using robot organs in this trait automatically fails that organ. Plus, it gives more use to monkey bodies laying around medical.
Electronic incompatibility with all robo-organs would be a good downside, I think.
EDIT: I wanted to add that I also updated Law 3 with Urs's wording. I'm still running into encounters where people are operating on old law assumptions that they can't die, and encounters where I've seen some...pretty terrible borging calls being made by sec, even after people already are using IC and LOOC methods to try and explain that that's not what they want. When people have had to talk in Discord about why they were unhappy with it, usually the OOC conversation also makes them embarrassed or upset. (This is RP-specific. This is what I think this can help resolve).
I think the traitor borging thing needs finessing, for sure, but I'd like to see this option available for just normal run-of-the-mill borging circumstances because I know it can genuinely upset people. I don't know if there's a way to toggle this as an RP-only trait or something, but maybe that's the answer?
I also dunno how to work with this and the idea some people have that puritan isn't *quite* difficult enough to deal with.
RE: [PR] Electronic Incompatibility Trait - DimWhat - 02-06-2021
People are already smelly with puritan. I don't want another reason for people to yell at me for forgetting to look at their medical records.