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+--- Thread: timelock captain? (/showthread.php?tid=15258)
timelock captain? - Mopcat - 10-19-2020
was talking on discord earlier about shitty captains and we collectively realized that, since captain has just as much potential for grief and shittery as sec, if not more, and on rp at least is actually expected to somewhat know what they're doing and how to read the room, making it not very much of a newbie-friendly role. on rp and non-rp servers alike they're a high-priority target for antagonists and constantly called upon by pretty much every department for one reason or another, so it's hard to learn while playing as them when you're constantly having assassination attempts against you and everyone needs you. overall they really just seem to have too much power and responsibility in practice to give to just anyone, much like with secoffs.
RE: timelock captain? - Trustworthy - 10-19-2020
Fully agree, considering people can just play sec cap if they're still timelocked from sec, and they're a role that comes with very powerful equipment. If detective is timelocked, then captain should definitely be timelocked.
RE: timelock captain? - Frank_Stein - 10-19-2020
I'm personally against it
I supported timelock sec not because of the grief potential, or how dangerous their gear is, but because of the role Sec plays in a round and how detrimental it is to play that role without knowing the basics.
With Captain, it's accepted that they can both be incompetent and traitorous, so I don't feel it's necessary to lock them.
RE: timelock captain? - Carbadox - 10-19-2020
I don't think that's neccesary really. There's enough measures in place current to prevent alot of this.
Quote:Fully agree, considering people can just play sec cap if they're still timelocked from sec, and they're a role that comes with very powerful equipment. If detective is timelocked, then captain should definitely be timelocked.
If a Captain is playing CapSec on a Security ban then that's probably an admin oversight since IIRC Command is supposed to be bundled with Sec bans and vice versa. Detective isn't a time lockeed job, only Sec Off is.
Quote:on rp at least is actually expected to somewhat know what they're doing and how to read the room, making it not very much of a newbie-friendly role
Captain, and all of Command I'm pretty sure, are set to Unwanted for new players. The descision to play Captain is entirely made by the player and isn't something that's randomly forced upon them.
RE: timelock captain? - Mouse - 10-19-2020
Captain is priority, so people with it set to unwanted can still roll it if no one who is readied up has it set to wanted.
RE: timelock captain? - Wisecrack34 - 10-19-2020
I'd just like to say that I'm of the opinion that Captain should be made into a genuine leadership role. At the moment, being captain gives you a target on your back and less respect than a clown or mime. Captain's are expected to be shit, with the HoP "Maybe" filling out the slack if they're not adventure zoning or living in a bureaucrat's paradise. I think that they should be given more options to lead the crew, such as having Captain based duties to perform around the station or tying them into telesci somehow as a defacto expedition leader
This was all WILDLY off topic but as is, Captain is a Green Staff Assistant, they are listed as a good choice for new players BECAUSE they have 0 responsibility other than "try not to get killed"
RE: timelock captain? - Chayot - 10-19-2020
For RP servers, I can see why this may be popular, even necessary. So I'd say yes to RP server.
For LRP, strongly No. Half the fun is getting an incompetent borderline psychopath Captain.
It's flexible, has AA and thereby allows players to experiment, learn and try fun gimmicks at leisure.
It's been largely agreed upon in the past, CAP is a great role for beginners. I'd support it remaining open to the public.
SEC was time-locked because of rampant abuse by the Officers. CAP, while not immune to abuse, it's cases are and few between.
Moreover, if CAP is being malicious toward the station SEC can bring him down.
If SEC is being malicious there are few forces on-station that can reprimand them.
RE: timelock captain? - jflan17 - 10-19-2020
Incompetent and criminal captains are an essential element of the game, as far as I'm concerned.
RE: timelock captain? - fosstar - 10-19-2020
Hey friends, made a PR for this, check it out! https://github.com/goonstation/goonstation/pull/2467/files
RE: timelock captain? - nefarious6th - 10-19-2020
Maybe ? yes for RP. Really only loosely leaning this way, and only because I think I finally saw a little of what some people on RP say they keep seeing.
Hard pass for main. Newbie Caps on main are fun, legitimately. I've had great rounds with them, love how liberally a lot of them use the announcement computer like a diary, and their realization that maybe they're in over their heads when something bad arises. I've had so few new/er player Captains that have actively done awful or wrong things, other then maybe giving me a kind of janky law that ultimately isn't totally horrible, just a little misguided (like a non-antag guaranteeing themselves as Captain with the MakeCaptain law).
Plus I think the real toolkit to fix up bad captains is to ahelp them; the uploading "onehuman" AI laws as a nonantag, executing-for-funsies captains are rare, occur on both servers, and are from my experience usually a one-and-done deal that I never seen again. Beyond that, from the two or three persistent "meh" Captains I've seen, I've played with great Sec who has no problem putting them in line. For that reason, I also don't really see Captain as being "security", so I don't think it'd have to parallel the Sec timelock because of any reasons of Cap "playing as security" or anything. Maybe there's a case to be made about the e-gun, but then why not change the gun or how it spawns versus the whole role, y'know?
I mean, I'm not sure how to say it best, but I guess what I mean is that most of the issues I see or experience with Captains aren't "bad Captain" issues, they're "bad Player" issues.
RE: timelock captain? - Salami Sam - 10-19-2020
(10-19-2020, 10:43 AM)jflan17 Wrote: Incompetent and criminal captains are an essential element of the game, as far as I'm concerned.
Yes.
RE: timelock captain? - DimWhat - 10-19-2020
I had two rounds in succession where the captain did something absolutely horrible. One captain decided to upload a murder law and arm up from the armoury with their metabuddy as a nonantag. The other straight murdered the clown and figured out how to gib them as a nonantag. These were two different players. Somethings gotta be done about how easy it is for the captain to be a jerk. Since the captain has a lot of leeway in how a round goes it's VERY easy to ruin a round if they try.
RE: timelock captain? - Sord213 - 10-19-2020
I'm personally all for making cap into a slightly more serious role, even on main/nonrp. Not quite HoS level of serious but not the worthless job it is now. Captain starts with an egun, one of the best ranged weapons you can find on station. Make the captain not 100% a joke
RE: timelock captain? - KikiMofo - 10-19-2020
Ehhh, I like noob captain. Its tradition that the captain is useless but some times you get an actual good captain and its a nice change.
If the shit captain is doing stuff thats blatantly against the rules just Ahelp it. No need to change it for everyone if just some people are being shit. If the captain is just being a shit and trying to be shitsec then security should arrest the captain for it. Its not like the captain is immune to secs laws.
This is kinda what I was worrying about when the sec timelock was brought up and then added. Adding more and more time locks for jobs and shit. Theres no reason to time lock anything outside of security.
RE: timelock captain? - Katzen - 10-19-2020
The HoS is pretty much the balancing check on the captain, being likely more competent and having officers.
I like captains being a mix of bumbling, arrogant, insane, traitorous and/or competent.