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+--- Thread: Make the ai recognize reptiles and other body types as human (/showthread.php?tid=14726)
Make the ai recognize reptiles and other body types as human - Boxta - 07-24-2020
As of this thread, https://wiki.ss13.co/Human, Reptiles and cowpeople arent recognized as human allowing the Ai to disobey their orders. This can be annoying for people who like playing with those body types bought via spessbux, as the AI can be very usefull.
RE: make the Ai normally see reptiles and other races as human - kyle2143 - 07-24-2020
This is basically the definition of a knee jerk, low effort post. Which we have a rule against.
Also, do not post about the current round in the forums or discord. That is also against the rules.
RE: make the Ai normally see reptiles and other races as human - Boxta - 07-24-2020
Edit, thread updated
RE: Make the ai recognize reptiles and other body types as human - aft2001 - 07-25-2020
I do agree that playable races should be considered human by default. For example if the HoS is a lizard, technically you can't obey the HoS over the fucking clown, because the HoS is not human; this doesn't make sense at all.
RE: Make the ai recognize reptiles and other body types as human - DJ-Fireball_did_this - 07-25-2020
Or make it impossible for an alien to be a head because NT is racist.
RE: Make the ai recognize reptiles and other body types as human - Mouse - 07-25-2020
(07-25-2020, 06:33 AM)aft2001 Wrote: I do agree that playable races should be considered human by default. For example if the HoS is a lizard, technically you can't obey the HoS over the fucking clown, because the HoS is not human; this doesn't make sense at all.
While the laws say that you don't have to follow the orders of nonhumans, they don't say that you have to not follow them. On the default lawset it is completely within the laws for the AI to obey a lizard HoS over the human clown if it wants to.
RE: Make the ai recognize reptiles and other body types as human - aft2001 - 07-25-2020
(07-25-2020, 06:52 AM)Mouse Wrote: While the laws say that you don't have to follow the orders of nonhumans, they don't say that you have to not follow them. On the default lawset it is completely within the laws for the AI to obey a lizard HoS over the human clown if it wants to.
I would say it isn't at all. Law 2 requires you to follow the orders of humans; the Lizard HoS's orders are not considered orders by a human, and as such they have the lowest priority when compared to that of the human clown. Of course, you can rule that the HoS knows better for the safety of the crew and that obeying the HoS over the clown in many cases would be in accordance with Law 1.
RE: Make the ai recognize reptiles and other body types as human - Ion Mage - 07-25-2020
Just an amusing thought I've had; making a human a lizard/squid/etc, mechanically speaking, is done with the injection (or sometimes activation) of one gene. There is only a one-gene difference from them and normal humans.
The same applies to albinos, dwarves, seizuremans, etc.
So this raises the question, how do you define 'human'? If its based on genetics, then excluding lizards/squids etc would also exclude albinos, dwarves, etc. Albinos are literally not human. Dwarves are literally not human.
This is an extremely literal way to interpret actual game mechanics, but last I checked the AI is meant to interpret things hyperliterally. This is absolutely an angle an AI player could approach things with.
This is not meant to be a serious point (I'm not even sure I have a point with it) but this seems like the best time I'll ever get to bring this silly thought up.
RE: Make the ai recognize reptiles and other body types as human - zjdtmkhzt - 07-25-2020
Honestly, I feel that it would be better if all the genetics mutantraces counted as human. The current state of things is just kind of weird, and the only place that tells you what the rules technically are is a single wiki article.
In addition, it seems rather strange to claim that squidpeople, lizardpeople, cowpeople, etc... are not human when they obviously have an incredibly human physiology with some minor animal traits mixed in.
It just seems overly complicated for silicons.
RE: Make the ai recognize reptiles and other body types as human - Podrick Equus - 07-25-2020
Any AI player worth their salt treats lizardfolk and the like as human under default laws because AI players have gotten in trouble for harming/ignoring them at roundstart
RE: Make the ai recognize reptiles and other body types as human - Technature - 07-25-2020
With that in mind, the wiki should probably say said players are human to prevent confusion.
Unless there's some weird thing I'm not aware of...?
RE: Make the ai recognize reptiles and other body types as human - aft2001 - 07-25-2020
Perhaps a general definition is as follows:
"A Human is defined as any organic, sapient humanoid. Exceptions may be detailed specifically."
The last clause/sentence is for certain antags like changelings, vampires, and werewolves (when they are in their wolf form). I was tempted to include non-supernatural in the definition of Human, but some player races can be considered supernatural (cows that bleed milk), or people with gene nerd fuckery, or the ability to see ghosts, the Chaplain, etc.
RE: Make the ai recognize reptiles and other body types as human - Erev - 07-25-2020
Playing an alien is a choice, not a requirement and mutations can be fixed. Leave it as is - there is no good way to word this where it won't either cause more confusion, take more power away from silicons, or both.
Leave it as is.
Or, if the powers that be say this absolutely must happen for whatever reason, make it an alternate law board.
RE: Make the ai recognize reptiles and other body types as human - Dickles - 07-25-2020
I like mutants being nonhuman. As Erev said, it's almost always a choice. They often have advantages attached to them. The advantage of being human is just that; being human.
An AI really shouldn't harm nonhuman players unless they feel threatened or someone orders them to, and someone shouldn't order them to unless they're an antag. I think it's fine.
I think it would be funny if the captain spawns as a nonhuman for there to be an addendum to consider their race human as well though. That would make sense to me.
RE: Make the ai recognize reptiles and other body types as human - Drago156 - 07-25-2020
So I believe part of this all stems to older times when mutantraces were considered very bad and a big no no. Obviously those views have changed but yet some things from those times haven't.
Now personally, I think it's fine either way, and in the case of mutantraces being non-human, I have a certain view that just because a crew member is non-human by default laws, this does not exclude them from being an NT asset, and it would probably be frowned upon by human management to have their employees beaten, battered, or ignored by the station AI and cyborgs.