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+--- Thread: Put the HoS cape from Manta as a job reward (/showthread.php?tid=14342)
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Put the HoS cape from Manta as a job reward - Enakai - 04-15-2020
Title. Not much else to say. I really prefer the cape to the jacket and am quite sad that I don't get to use it as much, seeing as Manta isn't quite as popular as Cog1 or Oshan at the moment. Figured it might provide a little bit more diversity to the HoS appearance. It also looks snazzy!
RE: Put the HoS cape from Manta as a job reward - Lady Birb - 04-15-2020
Just let us use the jacket/cape inhand to fold in into the other, like the hat&beret
RE: Put the HoS cape from Manta as a job reward - Enakai - 04-15-2020
That is a far better idea. Much easier to swap between, too!
RE: Put the HoS cape from Manta as a job reward - Drago156 - 04-15-2020
(04-15-2020, 07:08 AM)Lord Birb Wrote: Just let us use the jacket/cape inhand to fold in into the other, like the hat&beret
YASSSSSSSSSSS DO IT!
RE: Put the HoS cape from Manta as a job reward - Tarmunora - 04-17-2020
Worth noting that the HoS cape has significantly higher defensive stats as compared to the HoS jacket. One or both of the items would probably need a restat.
RE: Put the HoS cape from Manta as a job reward - Leeanei - 04-19-2020
Bringing the HoS cape down would feel worse and throw people off who were used to the increased protection from the cape. The coat should probably be buffed in that respect, but I always figured with the coat I was trading armor for style.
RE: Put the HoS cape from Manta as a job reward - Flaborized - 04-19-2020
I think it'd be fine for the cape to be Not Armor, cuz I think it doesn't really look like armor. Ideally you should be able to visually identify whether a clothing article does or doesn't protect people from stuff, even if you're seeing it for the first time and don't know it's armor from the stats popup. Most* of our body armor stuff works like this, which is good. Stuff that protects you is visually an armor vest or big n bulky looking, communicating that the person wearing it is better protected.
RE: Put the HoS cape from Manta as a job reward - ZeWaka - 04-20-2020
(04-19-2020, 06:40 PM)Flaborized Wrote: I think it'd be fine for the cape to be Not Armor, cuz I think it doesn't really look like armor. Ideally you should be able to visually identify whether a clothing article does or doesn't protect people from stuff, even if you're seeing it for the first time and don't know it's armor from the stats popup. Most* of our body armor stuff works like this, which is good. Stuff that protects you is visually an armor vest or big n bulky looking, communicating that the person wearing it is better protected.
+1
RE: Put the HoS cape from Manta as a job reward - saccharineChampion - 04-20-2020
I agree with Flaborized here. Honestly, I didn't even realise the cape was armor, forget about knowing it was a better armor than the jacket. A silly idea I have is to give it a toggleable "wrapped" mode - think "Batman" - which would be the only mode which provides the armor and comes with some downside - perhaps slowing down the wearer, or giving them a chance to trip. I think that'd communicate the protective capabilities better, an provide an interesting decision instead of just having a single item be aesthetically and statistically superior.
RE: Put the HoS cape from Manta as a job reward - Trustworthy - 04-21-2020
The HoS spawns with the cape on, instead of armor, and isn't the whole story behind the Manta that its a military vessel of some sort? I think its fine having above average defence. Might also persuade HoSes to vote something that isn't cog1, but thats besides the point. They spawn with it on instead of armor, therefore, its obviously meant to take the place of armor. It doesn't need to be nerfed.
RE: Put the HoS cape from Manta as a job reward - saccharineChampion - 04-21-2020
The main issue isn't about the fact that Manta HoS gets better armor, imo, but that the cape doesn't really communicate that it's armor. I also disagree with the assertion that "They spawn with it on instead of armor, therefore, its obviously meant to take the place of armor." - one could just as well argue that it's a unique map spawn on a map that has its own unique aesthetics (see also: Communication Officer in place of Radio Show Host), and that as such it doesn't necessarily need to be armor, especially since you can just replace it with armor from a locker. Rather, that it could be an aesthetic tradeoff.
RE: Put the HoS cape from Manta as a job reward - Carbadox - 04-21-2020
I had an idea for a patch to make the cape statistically the same as the jacket but make it as a job reward and take it out of the locker. IDK how people would feel about a stats nerf in exchange for further accessibility
RE: Put the HoS cape from Manta as a job reward - Sick Ness Monster - 04-21-2020
I'd be fine with being able to get the cape on other maps if the trade off was nerfing its armor rating. We've had a similar discussion in the past in regards to bumping up the armor of the coat, and the majority opinion was that the coat wasn't meant to be armor - you're trading defense for style points (which is always worth it).
So yeah - if you want to be a lame HOS with an armor focus, go wear a bulletproof vest. The cape and coat should be swappable like the hat/beret and have the same defensive stats as the coat currently does.
RE: Put the HoS cape from Manta as a job reward - Trustworthy - 04-22-2020
I'm not sure about armor having to look like armor in this case. How many times has the fact your opponent is wearing armor significantly affected your response, realistically? In my experience, nearly never. Why? Because I'm already using my best weapons, and I can't just switch to AP,because its rare as heck to get a kinetic, let alone AP ammo for it. And besides, when you're fighting the HoS, its pretty obvious they're going to be armored. Case in point, the alt armor for the captain looks nothing like armor and keeps all its stats, and thats never been an issue, so I don't see what the problem is in this case. It should stay as-is, on Manta at least. For other maps, just make it a reskin, although I feel it should stay Manta exclusive, personally.
RE: Put the HoS cape from Manta as a job reward - Flaborized - 04-22-2020
Armor is actually pretty important actually! I think this is poorly communicated (partially because it feels like what is and is not armor is arbitrary)
I did some light testing on my master branch, the cape is actually one point of armor better than a vest. Wearing it reduces damage from the .22 pistol from 22 brute damage to 8, reduces extinguisher hits from 10 brute damage to 3, and increases the amount of c-saber hits you can take until you are stunned from 2 to 3. It also reduces damage from screwdrivers from 5 to 0 (!) .
Again, I feel that part of why armor is very rarely thought about is because it's hard to intuit what has armor and how good it is. Someone wearing a vest and regular helmet might look way more protected than a dude wearing an HoS beret and cape, but both of those Actual Real Armor Items are worse than the aesthetically Not Armor items that... are armor? The mechanic doesn't really work if it's not very clear who is and who isn't protected, ideally players should be able to tell what is and isn't armor entirely based on look at the thing. The HoS cape isn't really the worst example of this though, (using medal rewards you have armor that looks nothing like armor and isn't always even armor), but I think that overall we should try to make Powerful Armor Items actually look like real armor for aesthetic consistency !!