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+---- Thread: ShotgunBill, Goon 2, 1/19/2020 (/showthread.php?tid=13649)
ShotgunBill, Goon 2, 1/19/2020 - MamuelMamington - 01-19-2020
Admin Name:ShotgunBill
Server: Goonstation 2
Date/Time: About 2:50 EST 1/19/2020
Synopsis: I'd like to preface this by saying that I understand that moderating this community is difficult and that people get mad/misunderstandings happen etc etc.
Alright, with that out of the way, here it goes.
I like to play both sides of the power balance on the station. I play security a good 80% of the time and have gotten accustomed to the rules, the regulations, whats culturally acceptable and whats not etc. I'll admit that for the past two years I've only played in spells, but I make sure to keep track of whats current on the wiki and if there has been any rule changes or shifts in how security plays.
Today I rolled mechanic in a gang round and, as all hell broke loose, I decided to say "Fuck it" and create some chaos on my own by breaking into security and the armory and advertising it to the gangs. I fully expected to be tazed, arrested, and brigged for at least 3 minutes if I was caught. I was being a little shit, but thats what SS13 is all about. I have arrested and embarrassed hundreds of little shits and its part of the fun. You're only executed if you're a verified traitor or outwardly violent to the point of being murderous.
(I'm getting to the point I just felt like it was necessary to give some background)
What I didn't expect was to be strangled to death and thrown in a locker with 4 other corpses by a security officer. I sent in an adminhelp because if I was a security officer or an HoS on Friday I wouldn't want that kind of person on my team, as all security officers should *At least* get permission from the captain before performing executions on arrested crew members, especially permanent ones that don't involve borging.
Shotgunbill did not agree with me that that behavior was inappropriate, and that's all fine with me. Its your server to run, and if we aren't playing by those rules anymore than alright (although I do wish the wiki was updated if its the case that security officers have more license to just go absolutely ham). What I have a problem with is the OOC shit-talking I received after the round.
Once the credits rolled around people immediately began complaining about this security officer, and Shotgunbill said they did an excellent job. I joined the chorus of voices by saying "I'll agree to disagree with you Bill" and was responded to with a snarky and in depth description of what I adminhelped about broadcasted to the server.
I understand that every admin has their own beliefs on how the game should run, that the culture is ever shifting, and that less or more shitbaggery is tolerated at different times, but I believe that we can have those conversations in a less hostile way.
RE: ShotgunBill, Goon 2, 1/19/2020 - shotgunbill - 01-19-2020
A non-antagonist should not be breaking into the Armory and into Security for the benefit of antagonist gangsters (edit: and advertising over the radio as such), especially when it is almost impossible to tell the difference between a regular crew-member and a disguised gang member.
Why did you do this?
-
We did end up speaking with the offending Security Officer at the end of the round with a delay.
RE: ShotgunBill, Goon 2, 1/19/2020 - Gerhazo - 01-19-2020
Willingly and directly helping out antagonists is effectively very close to self-antagging and has been for the longest time a solid no as far as I know and not a result of the culture shifting, especially with advertising your armory antics over the radio clearly expressing your intent for gang members to get a hold of the equipment and also painting yourself as one.
Which I'll support with this single log.
[39:29.7] Roger Jerome (MamuelMamington) SAY: ;Hey I unlocked the armory if any gang members wanna fuck around with it (102,208,1 in Armory)
I don't think there was anything wrong with you being judged and treated as one when you've made your stance so firmly clear and in fact that action by itself should have probably resulted in administrative action against you at the time for helping out the antagonists.
That said this is just my opinion regarding the in-round incident itself, I realise the complaint isn't about that but instead the treatment/demeanor it was discussed with in the OOC channels and I'll reserve my judgement on that end for the moment as I haven't been involved there nor yet checked the logs for those to form my own thoughts on that.
RE: ShotgunBill, Goon 2, 1/19/2020 - MamuelMamington - 01-19-2020
It was in the spirit of AI core parties and other assorted near end of round chaos. I'm a mechanic, I wanted to scan the electropacks and other assorted gunk in there. I did this because the round had already gone to shit and it seemed like a way to endear myself to the gang members. If you look earlier on in the notes you'll see "Hi can I get a gang to protect the cloner in mechanics" as murder was occuring all around me and I had seen maybe one sec officer all round. Honestly, I didn't even think any security were playing as it was pretty early in the day.
But again that's not the point of this at all. I was all cool with it being a learning experience for me until you felt the need to broadcast the event over OOC. I *VERY* rarely use adminhelp and I only ever do so if I feel like it will improve the round/improve the culture in a way that I think is beneficial.
Side note, and apologies for the double post, but the only times I've ever seem someone get in trouble for assisting antags was by directly attacking or performing antagonistic acts. Scanning random shit and being a general nuisance/mad scientist while also assisting the station by building a cloner (which I did) is what being one is all about. I again expected to be toilet flushed or whipped or whatever for being an asshat because I was purposefully being one but I was under the impression that antags were required to wear at least one piece of clothing/carried gang gear with them. In the same way that a doctor can heal an antag I thought that I could just fuck around like I normally would and if it got the antags that lived next to me to like me more than hey gravy.
People break into EVA, the bridge, the AI, as non antags all the time to either be a mild miscreant of an assistant or the like, and thats the kind of thing that I enjoy and why I play on this server. If I wanted to act like a normal person for 8 hours I'd play on baystation, but breaking and entering being flashed and thrown in a toilet is part of what playing here is about. The dynamic between somewhat off the chain staff assistants and others grouped with skilled antags and telling the difference between the two is part of why I enjoy playing security.
(Know it wasn't what the point is but I felt like that needed to be adressed)
RE: ShotgunBill, Goon 2, 1/19/2020 - shotgunbill - 01-19-2020
(01-19-2020, 12:30 PM)MamuelMamington Wrote: Once the credits rolled around people immediately began complaining about this security officer, and Shotgunbill said they did an excellent job. I joined the chorus of voices by saying "I'll agree to disagree with you Bill" and was responded to with a snarky and in depth description of what I adminhelped about broadcasted to the server.
I understand that every admin has their own beliefs on how the game should run, that the culture is ever shifting, and that less or more shitbaggery is tolerated at different times, but I believe that we can have those conversations in a less hostile way.
For full transparency to everyone here, here are some of the logs for after the round. I've removed ASAY, AHELP, and ACCESS logs. Emphasis in bold.
The majority of complainants were discussing the upload of Law 4.
Two other people commented on the offending Security Officer:
- one with legitimate grievance that was being resolved in after-round adminhelps [found with a gang radio on their ear], and;
- the other was a gang member who making a joke at their expense (they were the "lawyer", note the 'traitor' note by their name).
Quote:[14:48:56] OOC: Camryn Stern (RichardGere) [DEAD] : What the hell george?
[14:49:00] OOC: Beepers (AI) (Pwnt39) : that was gun as a ai
[14:49:06] OOC: Beepers (AI) (Pwnt39) : blame the cap for the lawes
[14:49:14] OOC: George Hayhurst (Polivilas) : the hell what?
[14:49:17] OOC: Rusty Bottom (BLooDHoG) : whas that 4th law made by a ganger even?
[14:49:17] OOC: Rusty Bottom (BLooDHoG) : whas that 4th law made by a ganger even?
[14:49:18] OOC: Granny Smith (Shotgunbill) [DEAD] : george was a fierce and determined security officer
[14:49:18] SAY: Caroline Audibert (TTerc) : *dance
[14:49:18] OOC: Johnathan Daemon (Skeletonman0) [TRAITOR] [DEAD] : why would you mae a law that overrides all laws and just says murder gang members
[14:49:19] SAY: Flynt Darling (Swumprat) : Howdy.
[14:49:21] OOC: Camryn Stern (RichardGere) [DEAD] : You murdered me
[14:49:23] OOC: Max Power (Riptwire) : what the
[14:49:25] OOC: Llewys Dawes (TrustworthyFella) [TRAITOR] [DEAD] : holy shit
[14:49:26] OOC: Max Power (Riptwire) : they aren't blowing up
[14:49:30] OOC: George Hayhurst (Polivilas) : You was long dead?
[14:49:30] OOC: Llewys Dawes (TrustworthyFella) [TRAITOR] [DEAD] : we won by miles
[14:49:30] SAY: George WMD Bush (DogetorDoge) : *burp
[14:49:30] SAY: George WMD Bush (DogetorDoge) : *burp
[14:49:30] SAY: George WMD Bush (DogetorDoge) : *burp
[14:49:30] SAY: George WMD Bush (DogetorDoge) : *burp
[14:49:31] SAY: George WMD Bush (DogetorDoge) : *burp
[14:49:31] OOC: Ainsley Cavalet (MamuelMamington) [DEAD] : I'll agree to disagree Shotgun
[14:49:31] SAY: George WMD Bush (DogetorDoge) : *burp
[14:49:31] SAY: George WMD Bush (DogetorDoge) : *burp
[14:49:31] SAY: George WMD Bush (DogetorDoge) : *burp
[14:49:31] OOC: Max Power (Riptwire) : did tehy change how that works
[14:49:34] OOC: Camryn Stern (RichardGere) [DEAD] : I was not long dead
[14:49:35] OOC: Beepers (AI) (Pwnt39) : law 4 overwrote all laws
[14:49:36] SAY: Flynt Darling (Swumprat) : *flip
[14:49:40] OOC: Camryn Stern (RichardGere) [DEAD] : and I did communicate this to you
[14:49:40] SAY: John Jinglehimershmit (Lacyus) [DEAD] : *flip
[14:49:40] OOC: Caleb Scott (RougeNPS) [DEAD] : That strangelet tho.
[14:49:41] SAY: Flynt Darling (Swumprat) : *flip
[14:49:41] SAY: Flynt Darling (Swumprat) : *flip
[14:49:44] SAY: John Bill (NPC) : Anyone gonna fire up the shitty grill?
[14:49:45] OOC: Beepers (AI) (Pwnt39) : who did i slowly burn in toxens?
[14:49:46] OOC: Poison Ivy (KaptainKabul) : Iam not a gang member and AI murdered me with door
[14:49:47] SAY: Flynt Darling (Swumprat) : *flip
[14:49:47] SAY: Flynt Darling (Swumprat) : *flip
[14:49:49] OOC: Granny Smith (Shotgunbill) [DEAD] : how about not breaking into the armory and broadcasting to the gangs mamuel
[14:49:50] OOC: Johnathan Daemon (Skeletonman0) [TRAITOR] [DEAD] : law 4 literally removed laws 1-3
[14:49:52] OOC: Boxer (Snackbraffontwitter) : Same
[14:49:53] SAY: Flynt Darling (Swumprat) : *flip
[14:49:53] SAY: Flynt Darling (Swumprat) : *flip
[14:49:53] OOC: Llewys Dawes (TrustworthyFella) [TRAITOR] [DEAD] : George electric chaired a lawyer
[14:49:54] SAY: Flynt Darling (Swumprat) : *flip
[14:49:57] OOC: Boxer (Snackbraffontwitter) : Sucked
[14:49:58] OOC: Llewys Dawes (TrustworthyFella) [TRAITOR] [DEAD] : disgusting
Edit:
I will further state that the Security Officer in question was the sole member of the Security force for nearly half of this round (with the exception of a late joiner, and a respawn-wave of anti-gang violence officers), where numerous people had (legitimately, as gangsters) been fucking with him for nearly the entire round.
Double edit:
The interesting thing about Gang rounds is that at any time, you can choose to join any Gang faction with ease, and have the full liberty to act like an antagonist to benefit them. A non-antagonist should not be doing any of these things.
And now, a double-post:
I feel like my responses have been unduly harsh - you just wanted to join in on the fun.
If you felt any ridicule at any time, then I apologize. We'll treat this as a learning experience.
RE: ShotgunBill, Goon 2, 1/19/2020 - MamuelMamington - 01-19-2020
Thank you and I apologize for the fuss I caused, hope to see you all on the station.