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+--- Thread: The Good Sec Thread(tm) (/showthread.php?tid=244)
Re: The Good Sec Thread(tm) - Coolguye - 01-07-2013
Morphing_Dwarf Wrote:Not enough to make them drunk for the rest of the round, by enough to make em pass out a few times.These two things are one and the same. If you are passing out drunk you are going to be that way for most of the rest of the round unless someone gets you some antihol.
But, you mentioned you were not sec, so it's significantly less bad. You can't go around picking fights with people and not expect to get your shit ruined every now and again. Security should never do this because they have better options, though. Even if an Assistant with sunglasses is being a total assclown, get Beepsky angry at him and then use your PDA to summon him. After Beepsky catches sight of your assclown he'll have way bigger problems than acting like a douche.
That said, if I caught you doing it as sec I'd probably arrest you and let you cool off for 1 minute.
V12US Wrote:The problem with playing security is that you either end up a butt monkey for the crew to abuse, or you end up as 'bad security' because you adopt a zero tolerance operating procedure.Did you read the thread at all? That's precisely what we're discussing and precisely why I was looking for input on changing the wiki. It is completely possible to be both forceful and polite. I can't speak for everyone, but I, for one, have had great success at Sec since I started using the new procedure. I don't lose control of suspects, I don't get attacked by the crew for my sins, and a number of suspects have even just chilled out and submitted to procedure instead of trying to fight me every step of the way. They know they are getting a fair procedure and I'm reasonably quick at getting it done.
Re: The Good Sec Thread(tm) - Dauntasa - 01-07-2013
I haven't played regular Sec more than once or twice since I got HoS. Which is almost a shame, since HoS is pretty fucking good and sometimes I almost miss that feeling of "here's a taser, a helmet, and an ID that has access to the room containing those things and basically nothing else. Go stop whatever aliens, enemy infiltrators and syndicate assault teams that happen to be wandering about. Also don't you fucking dare cuff someone to a bed or god will smite you. Good luck!" In other ways I don't miss it at all because goddamn that really fucking sucked most of the time.
But I remember one time me and 2 other sec officers got reports of a traitor in chemistry. We went over to Zeta with a scientist to check it out. We arrived to see a cloud of Stimulant smoke wafting out of the chemlab, followed rapidly by a naked man covered in blood and wielding a fire extinguisher. Since we were all fairly new we emptied our tasers at him, accomplishing precisely jackshit, and then attacked him with our useless batons while he beat the scientist unconscious. But, when he disarmed one of the others and started beating him with his own baton, we got the idea to respond in kind. He set the disarmed officer on fire with napalm, but me and the other remaining officer got in a crack with a harmbaton. This ignored the stims and knocked him down. We then slowly, agonizingly beat him to death while the scientist suffocated in the corner and our fallen comrade smouldered quietly. If we let off for a second, he'd be right back up, so we had no time to save them. We just kept hitting and hitting until finally, he was dead. Blood was everywhere. Good times
Re: The Good Sec Thread(tm) - Truth - 01-08-2013
I agree with the updated wiki article. It's better to shoot first, ask later, unfortunately, because your suspect will attempt to resist more often than not, and possibly witnesses, anti-sec vigilantes, and metagaming friends, will assist them. I also agree the detective should be utilized, but unfortunately all it will lead to is yet another screaming arrest. But since that's how it always is, it's worth it. And finally, I, too, agree that witnesses should be asked to come forward after an arrest is made. Only one person mentioned the use of the interrogation room. I like it using it, however, that requires the detective's help, which will either take too long, or be impossible (if dead or perpetually busy). Also, it's just as easy to brig them and question them, and saves time.
On the wiki you wrote "NEVER confiscate critical items, though", but never stated what those items are. It'd be best to make sure those items are clear. Also, you might consider explaining how to bucklecuff and un-bucklecuff.
Re: The Good Sec Thread(tm) - Dauntasa - 01-08-2013
It's pretty simple. If Bob the Electrician gets caught busting some windows, don't confiscate his Device Analyzer because doing that is basically the same as demoting him since he's got no way to do his job now.
If taking the item would make it impossible for them to do their job, and you weren't going to try and have them demoted anyway, don't take it.
Re: The Good Sec Thread(tm) - Coolguye - 01-08-2013
It's defined under the "Dos and Don'ts" heading:
DON'T:
Confiscate critical items as punishment. This applies to both common but important items such as IDs and backpacks and job-specific items like a Janitor's galoshes. Impeding someone's ability to do their job means that all they can do is commit more crimes. This also applies to headsets. A prisoner must ALWAYS have the last resort of calling for help on the radio.
I struggled with redefining it, pointing people to dos and don'ts, or having a loopback link there while writing it. I ended up deciding that it's fine the way it is because anyone who's played this game for more than a couple rounds has a general idea of what's irreplaceable, and if someone isn't interested in reading the whole article after the Big Red Warning Box up top then there's probably not a lot I can do for them from an instructional standpoint.
However, that said, if you think there's a better place it could be defined I'm certainly all ears.
Re: The Good Sec Thread(tm) - Coolguye - 01-08-2013
Coolguye Wrote:I struggled with redefining it, pointing people to dos and don'ts, or having a loopback link there while writing it. I ended up deciding that it's fine the way it is because anyone who's played this game for more than a couple rounds has a general idea of what's irreplaceable, and if someone isn't interested in reading the whole article after the Big Red Warning Box up top then there's probably not a lot I can do for them from an instructional standpoint.As an afterthought, this sort of thing seems like the ideal use-case for the Tooltip extension, if we could get some interest in installing it. If someone reading this agrees with me on this go bug people in the wiki topic.
Re: The Good Sec Thread(tm) - FrontlineAcrobat4 - 01-09-2013
I just want to add to this thread by saying, if you've arrested someone and the person is shouting into his radio about, "HEKLP ME SECURITY IS KILLNING MEEEE111111". That is when I confiscate his headset. I'm not a big fan of people who cause shit, get arrested, then start screaming into the radio about being murdered so a bunch of idiots will mob Security to save him. If the person is doing that, take the headset from him and put it in the locker in his cell.
Re: The Good Sec Thread(tm) - Dauntasa - 01-09-2013
Brigging is just a laughably ineffective punishment in the first place. I mean, the max time is 5 minutes so you'll probably spend more time getting him in there than he will actually spend there. Plus it's just long enough to annoy people without actually making them afraid of getting caught, so tossing someone in there just means that in a few minutes he'll be back out and mad at you.
Demotion isn't very good, either. Even if you can get the HoP or HoS to actually get it done, Assistants are more than capable of taking their horrible revenge on you. I mean, I can start the round as a Staff Assistant and 15 minutes in I'll have a full spacesuit, jetpack, toolbelt, sunglasses, access to AI upload and maybe some weapons if I see an opportunity to grab one or mug a Sec Officer. One time I got demoted to Assistant and around 15 minutes later I kidnapped the Officer responsible, beat him up and forced him to dress like a clown.
Honestly most of the time I end up just stunlocking the guy with my baton for a minute while I yell at him and check him for gear. Then I wander off because brigging him requires effort and doesn't accomplish anything. Also back when I was a regular Sec officer I would steal their insulated gloves because if they were supposed to have them they could get more and if they weren't supposed to have them then fuck em. That was probably bad, though. Of course now I am a fancy bigshot HoS and can get my own gloves but if one of the officers wants to steal their gloves I'm not gonna stop them.
I miss the old Donut Station Solitary Cell that doubled as a gas chamber because I used to put people in there with a toolbox and an oxygen tank then fill the room with plasma and see if they could escape. Some of them suffocated, most of them burned and a few ran through the hallways, engulfed in flames as they enjoyed a few seconds of wonderful, burning freedom.
Re: The Good Sec Thread(tm) - Coolguye - 01-09-2013
FrontlineAcrobat4 Wrote:If the person is doing that, take the headset from him and put it in the locker in his cell.The last 4 times people have tried this on me, it's backfired on them due to the security reporting you suggested earlier in the thread. Use the port-a-brig and you can't get hooligans fighting Security Oppression unless they're literally right fucking there (and you would've had to fight them anyway). By the time they're back in Sec, if they spend any time at all howling that Security is killing them and it's interrupted halfway with the announcement of their arrest and their sentence the entire crew disregards anything they say the rest of the round.
Dauntasa Wrote:Brigging is just a laughably ineffective punishment in the first place.Brigging makes people forget. It's not so much a deterrent as it makes most people bored enough to forget what they were doing. Brig timer is also on BYOND time, so a 5 minute brig sentence is actually going to be 12-17 minutes depending on how awful BYOND is today, so it can be a pretty substantial amount of time to be cooling your heels.
If someone is determined and has a methodical plan to be a problem then yes, they're going to be a problem even if you brig them. But that use-case is so narrow compared to all the arrests you make as Security. The overwhelming majority of people I arrest are acting like jerks because someone looked at them wrong, or have such a chip on their shoulder that you can almost hear the spittle spraying on their monitor. The former get bored, forget what they were angry about, and find something else to do after their sentence is up. The latter are the types that spew expletives at you and then suicide/succumb when you lock them up and stop giving them attention.
Personally I'd also argue that if someone has a methodical plan to be Jesse James then it's more fun the way it is. I remember one time you and 3 accomplices started a riot and bashed my face in with fire extinguishers a couple times when I came to put down the riot and stop you from looting EVA dry. I eventually collared two of your accomplices but missed you and the last guy. That sort of tit-for-tat can be really fun, and as an Officer honestly it's a nice change of pace to be up against someone who won't slaughter me or bucklecuff me to a chair for 40 minutes if I don't take them down perfectly.
Re: The Good Sec Thread(tm) - Sundance - 01-10-2013
FrontlineAcrobat4 Wrote:I just want to add to this thread by saying, if you've arrested someone and the person is shouting into his radio about, "HEKLP ME SECURITY IS KILLNING MEEEE111111". That is when I confiscate his headset..
I do this as last resort, but only because with the HoS title that people normally think "well it's the Hos, I don't think he's actually killing him" (unless i'm mindslaved in which I will most definitely be strangling them when I get back... slowly), but I can imagine an average security guard getting swamped by greyshirts. The best thing to do in this case is get the AI on your side. Ask the AI "am I killing him?" in which case the AI will state: "It appears that Pubbie McShithead is lying" in which case, as coolguye said, throws away trust the crew had in them.
Dauntasa Wrote:StuffWhile some of your observations are true in some parts, brigging can definitely help for most things.
Think about jail as less about jail but more like a mother grounding his son/daughter then frowning at them constantly through a window.
This is how I go about punishment
If someone is being a little angry and stabby, I throw em in the brig to cool down, 1 minute.
If that person decided to do a little run around security
(that doesn't happen any more because I ALWAYS fill an extinguisher full of water and leave it at the brig), I increase his brig time about a minute for wasting my time, so 2 minutes.
If that little someone is back in jail and I increased the time accordingly and then starts saying "fuck you security, I'm breaking out of jail and theres nothing you can do about it" and starts smacking at the window with his shoes, I flashbang him (he can't run away/disarm that), then take away everything from him, because he's removed his privilege to be clothed. I place his stuff at the exit of the chute for him to retrieve afterwards near the end of his time.
If that certain person decides to be a headcase for security and/or the crew this is when you NEED to get creative with your punishments. Brigging is a slap on the wrist. Permabrigging is special case, i.e: Terribad security officers, rule breakers/creeps, metagamers, temporary respite for traitors while you plan for something to do.
I'll throw a few examples:
♦Someone was being super shit, so I cuffed him, stunned him, built tables around him, then got botany to grow tomatoes to fuck at him for being such a insufferable asshole (he spaced two guys for no reason). Oh and I placed a bible under him just incase he felt like he wanted the easy way out.
♦A wizard was doing pretty damn good at killing the crew, so when I caught him, I made him mortal then forcefed him alcohol until he had an addiction. He survived till the end, but in ways he wished he hadn't.
♦Built a changling zoo reinforced with crystal glass and a table to pass over dead bodies for the crew to clap and point at as he sucked the corpses/human monkeys dry
♦10 minutes in, dumbshit engineers released the sing and I caught a traitor. We met half-way that if I release him now, that if he doesn't kill anybody and I take his pda, that I would complete his objective (kill monkeys) for him. I stuffed all the monkeys into trash, and I had the detective to keep an eye on him, I turned the crusher on when the shuttle arrived, crushing all dem chimps as he kept his side of the bargain.
♦Used an unlocked PDA to mindslave a vampire to fight crime. Best security officer I ever had.
Re: The Good Sec Thread(tm) - Sundance - 01-10-2013
Also, while scrolling through the wiki, I noticed Shackles, by combining orange shoes with cuffs, forcing the player to walk.
Has anyone found any legitimate excuse for using them? Can they be taken of like normal shoes or would you have to resist like cuffs?
Re: The Good Sec Thread(tm) - FrontlineAcrobat4 - 01-10-2013
Sundance Wrote:Also, while scrolling through the wiki, I noticed Shackles, by combining orange shoes with cuffs, forcing the player to walk.
Has anyone found any legitimate excuse for using them? Can they be taken of like normal shoes or would you have to resist like cuffs?
I presume you would use shackles when you would want to escort a prisoner from one area to another. Like transporting a Traitor from the Brig to the escape shuttle. The shackles would make is harder for the prisoner to run, and make people trying to save the traitors run a lot slower. Of course this is all a guess I've never seen shackles ever before.
Re: The Good Sec Thread(tm) - Dauntasa - 01-10-2013
Sundance Wrote:Also, while scrolling through the wiki, I noticed Shackles, by combining orange shoes with cuffs, forcing the player to walk.I have used shackles before, although not since prison uniforms got removed from the brig since the only other orange shoes(I think) are the ones the Miners have and fuck me if I'm going all the way over there to ask for them. You can take them off normally, but obviously not if you're wearing cuffs. They were actually really nice for transporting the kinds of people who are just waiting for some assistant to bump into you so they can make their daring escape, because when they take off at walking speed they usually don't get far.
Has anyone found any legitimate excuse for using them? Can they be taken of like normal shoes or would you have to resist like cuffs?
Re: The Good Sec Thread(tm) - Coolguye - 01-11-2013
If you really need to restrain a prisoner like that for transport, get a straight jacket from medbay, don't waste time trying to find specifically orange shoes. They can be taken off like any other shoes if your hands are free, so in the most normal case where you have a prisoner who is both cuffed and shackled, they'd have to resist the cuffs off and then take off the shoes.
Or, you know, you could just clap a straight jacket on them, get both of these benefits, and have it be unresistable. If you're honestly considering transporting someone under guard like this they must have been very seriously shitty so I kinda feel like they've lost the benefit of the doubt. If you're just going back to the security office you should just use the portabrig.
Re: The Good Sec Thread(tm) - Dauntasa - 01-11-2013
Coolguye Wrote:If you really need to restrain a prisoner like that for transport, get a straight jacket from medbay, don't waste time trying to find specifically orange shoes. They can be taken off like any other shoes if your hands are free, so in the most normal case where you have a prisoner who is both cuffed and shackled, they'd have to resist the cuffs off and then take off the shoes.Fuck that, though. Fuck that just as hard as getting orange shoes. Obviously if you're the HoS you can just grab a straight jacket but if you aren't haggling with the doctors will take forever and they may just tell you to go fuck yourself. People who see a Sec Officer asking for a straight jacket will assume he's being a douchebag and 90% of the time they'll be right.
Or, you know, you could just clap a straight jacket on them, get both of these benefits, and have it be unresistable. If you're honestly considering transporting someone under guard like this they must have been very seriously shitty so I kinda feel like they've lost the benefit of the doubt. If you're just going back to the security office you should just use the portabrig.
If you're absolutely not up for chasing another handcuffed asshole in circles around the station, here's what you do: If you were the one who grabbed the port-a-brig remote, use that. They are capable of breaking out of cuffs while inside, so stun them before you stuff them in, then book it to Sec as soon as you teleport them. You shouldn't have any real problems with this.
If someone else grabbed the remote, but you got the Thermals, drag them through maintenance. You'll be unlikely to run into anyone else who can bump into you and instantly free the prisoner, and if there is someone else you'll be able to spot them and avoid them, and if you fuck up and can't avoid them the prisoner is still locked in because they can't open doors in cuffs, and your thermals will let you hunt them down easily.
If you have neither thermals nor the remote, stunlock them with your baton. If they're a dick, they'll scream and yell at you about this, but fuck them. It doesn't hurt them and when some douchebag inevitably barrels into at full force in the middle of a huge empty hallway they will not be able to sprint for freedom. The only reason not to do this is because you don't want to waste charge.
If you have somehow manage to catch someone while completely unarmed and without thermals or port-a-brig, first off, good job! That must have sucked. Search them and if they aren't a traitor or some kind of murderous psychopath who absolutely must be stopped, confiscate everything they shouldn't have and then tell them that the amount of time they will spend breaking out of their handcuffs is their sentence.