Hey hey this item is really slow to pull! Fix it!

Hey hey this item is really slow to pull! Fix it! - Printable Version

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RE: Hey hey this item is really slow to pull! Fix it! - Paineframe - 06-14-2017

Personally, I feel like the idea isn't completely terrible, but it runs into a number of major problems that make it seem worse than it should be:

1) even though it's intended specifically for crates and lockers and is intended specifically to incentivize other ways of moving cargo, it also affects a whole bunch of other things that aren't even compatible with half the methods of moving cargo, such as canisters, portable reclaimers, porta-flashers, and air scrubbers

2) every other method of moving cargo sucks, has sketchy availability, or both. I realize that it's unlikely it'd be possible to make them as good as full-speed dragging would be, but they're in a pretty sorry state right now

Belt Hell is slow, unreliable, and every delivery station on Cog2 is hidden way off the beaten path in the ass end of maintenance. there's no open, publicly visible spot on Cog2 that you can dump shit at for anyone to use (I think the belts were really good on Cog1, though!). also, it's slow enough that you can usually walk all the way across the station and sit in the destination station to wait for it
the MULEbot PDA controller barely works, the direct-control UI doesn't have a destination list, and it's got all sorts of stupid legacy limitations like a limited power reserve and needing to be hacked to accept non-crate items. also, it's slow, and it only delivers one crate to one destination at a time
most jobs don't get cargo transporters, and most departments don't have transport pads. there's no way to build more pads or even repair existing ones that get destroyed
the mail system stops working as soon as anything gets bombed, and it's way too impractical to repair. same goes for custom chutes
forklifts are nice, but there's only one or two on each map, one of which is locked away in QM, and a lot more than one or two people generally want to move things per round. also, I feel like the verbs-based controls are kinda clunky
cargo tractor has the same problem as the forklift, plus it's slower, more annoying to set up, and harder to access on both maps. it's not stored near anyplace that would actually want to use it
pods are annoying to fly, they're slow, and all but one of the pod bays are right next to a belt station anyway

3) even though people have complained about them for months, both short-range cargo shuffling and movement penalty stacking still don't really have a fix in place for them. I feel like the latter is an especially big deal because there's already a whole lot of things that negatively impact speed, including cold, injury, and protective clothing. shuffling crates in QM is bad enough, but shuffling crates in an emergency suit because someone took out half the cargo bay wall is miserably slow, especially if you took a couple dozen brute damage and haven't healed it off yet

4) if you drag a crate somewhere for someone else, you can check and see if anyone's actually there to receive it, or go ahead and leave it in a publicly visible place so anyone who ventures by can use it. The forklift and tractor are the only transport methods that allow this - for everything else, you just send it off and never hear about it again. This is part of the overall problem with QM: no one ever talks to you, so you have no idea if anyone wants anything and if you send stuff off proactively it could very well be going to an empty department. If someone wants something from cargo, they'll just go get all-access, break in, order it themselves, and to carry it they'll steal the forklift (and never return it). The only reason to move a crate is for yourself, and most of the time it's for some random gimmick stuff rather than sending work materials to the appropriate department. For example, a lot of time people want to bring crates or lockers to the Market, but on Cog2 that means sending stuff to QM and then hoping the QM doesn't just steal it or sell it.

RE: Hey hey this item is really slow to pull! Fix it! - Noah Buttes - 06-14-2017

I really don't want to post in this thread, but I need to correct a bit of misinformation.

(06-14-2017, 04:20 PM)Paineframe Wrote:
most jobs don't get cargo transporters, and most departments don't have transport pads. there's no way to build more pads or even repair existing ones that get destroyed

You can scan cargo pads using the mechanics device analyzer.

The rest of your post is good though.

RE: Hey hey this item is really slow to pull! Fix it! - Musketman12 - 06-14-2017

let me make wheels and attach them to things

RE: Hey hey this item is really slow to pull! Fix it! - atamusvaleo - 06-16-2017

I did just make this thing... I still need to make an actual pallet though.

(03-22-2017, 01:37 PM)atamusvaleo Wrote:

(06-13-2017, 05:21 PM)atamusvaleo Wrote: I finished the pallet jack and figured out how to create a dmi. Woo!

!!!Let's celebrate!!!

And this...

(03-15-2017, 12:10 PM)atamusvaleo Wrote: Solving Problems: one sprite at a time

Beezlebub's Rolling Crate©
Now comes with wheels attached and a lovely shade of blue!

RE: Hey hey this item is really slow to pull! Fix it! - ferriswheel1 - 06-16-2017

(06-14-2017, 04:20 PM)Paineframe Wrote: SNIP SNIP

You managed to point out most of the problems with both QM and transport systems. Literally all of this is so true, and makes playing QM a massive chore if you actually want to help people. Currently, all QM's can really do is dump a load of supplies outside cargo bay and hope people will use em.

Stay tuned for a massive effortpost in which I try to brainstorm ideas for making QM transport better.

Also:

(06-14-2017, 04:43 PM)Noah Buttes Wrote: You can scan cargo pads using the mechanics device analyzer.

Good luck getting any mechanic to improve the station, they're all off building infinite loafing machines, deathtraps, packet nerdery or a bastard combination of the same.

RE: Hey hey this item is really slow to pull! Fix it! - Sundance - 06-16-2017

What's the difference between the Pallet Jack and the current crate transporter that I can't remember (tip of the tongue)

What's the difference between the rolling crate and a cart?

RE: Hey hey this item is really slow to pull! Fix it! - atamusvaleo - 06-16-2017

The utility tractor? It can only carry one item per cart and those carts are sometimes awkward, easily stolen, and often a mess to sort out if one is removed.

Like the forklift, the pallet jack can carry more than one crate. Ideally, one would be able to stack multiple crates (maybe even multiple large, movable objects?) on a pallet, load that pallet onto the pallet jack, and pull them all with minimal slowdown.

Unlike the forklift, the pallet jack is moved by pulling/pushing it; eliminating the command screen needed to stop/unload crates. It could potentially carry carts and lockers as well.

The rolling crate would be treated as a regular crate in all regards (forklift is able to pick it up, mule can carry it, etc.) whereas a cart is limited to simply being pulled.

RE: Hey hey this item is really slow to pull! Fix it! - Ed Venture - 06-19-2017

Just wanted to say in light of Cirrial's recent changes that I am now extremely happy and wanted to express immense gratitude to Cirrial for these changes.

RE: Hey hey this item is really slow to pull! Fix it! - Frank_Stein - 06-20-2017

Well that was unexpected. Can we keep the drag speed reduction on heavy items to just a bit below normal speed, so you can't snatch shit people are dragging without them catching up to you

RE: Hey hey this item is really slow to pull! Fix it! - Sundance - 06-20-2017

Not sure if a complete U-turn is the best course of action especially after 440 or so posts, but "reverting" and proceeding to target the worst offenders is a better approach than making everything slow and removing/reducing the least worse offenders.

I agree with frank. A minor slowdown for various big offenders is a good route. Perhaps a good compromise would be dragging things also means you cannot sprint?

RE: Hey hey this item is really slow to pull! Fix it! - Cirrial - 06-20-2017

The poll shows the community preference was for a total revert. The all-but-complete revert is the compromise. Democracy has spoken. Thanks for voting! This thread has run its course, I believe, but I'll start a new one with a new poll as there's been a considerable change since the one this thread was here to discuss.