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+--- Thread: Security Thread 4.0: Oh no (/showthread.php?tid=6349)
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - Boa Jacque - 05-08-2016
After reading the thread, I saw a few good questions and a few good comments. I meant to keep them all in mind but I may miss some whilst I share my thoughts about what I've read.
Some suggestions were made for making Sec "easier". All the suggestions seemed oriented toward making sec easier to play, or easier to navigate through the tools and gadgets (sec records, etc). Those suggestions were good, particularly the sec records update and the notion to add a voting system to court cases.
(because that would inspire more court cases, as would fancy colored text from the courtroom--much like radio station satellite text)
I'd like to add a suggestion - Give sec an additional gadget that serves as a digital whistle. I.E. an item you could click on (in pockets preferably) that would transmit your location over the sec channel with a !Backup Requested! type message displayed. Basically like a life alert remote, except it serves to call other sec officers to the scene of a crime or other trouble, even if the officer requesting backup is stunned and on the ground. (Not unconscious, just stunned). Getting a second officer on scene is usually all it takes to keep random shitheads from pulling a suspect free of an arrest. The second officer can dish out arrests for obstruction of justice and the both of the crimers can then entertain each other while sharing a brig sentence.
I feel Sec officers ARE under equipped in their gearset -by design- because they're supposed to work together to save crew and thwart threats to the station. Adding a tool that makes it easier to work together would be great for the "You can't outrun a radio" mentality that is/should be Sec's mantra. They'd get a real, robust upgrade but it doesn't actually enable any single officer to be more heavily armed.
I can already hear some folks naysay under the banner that since nobody plays sec that this item would be useless, except that command headsets also get the Sec channel, so in a pinch its kinda the Captain/HoP's duty to fill in as backup if there aren't any other sec officers. (backup could be as little as healing the goodguys or as much as stopping the badguy - especially if hes about to kill the only sec officer)
Ideally threads like this get more people playing sec, so with more officers an item like this would be increasingly useful.
Lastly, in regards to people being afraid to execute the worst of the worst - be they traitor or just a constant obstruction of justice that absolutely has prevented you from doing your normal duties as intended -- I think you should follow your gut instinct, with a strong leaning toward leniency. Be prepared to justify your actions with a short list of facts in chronological order in case of scrutiny. I think MOST of us, particularly us on the forums, are well past doing anything sketchy/intentionally toe-ing the line in regards to being a shitty officer. Those of us who take executions/etc too far can get a nice big Job-Ban from sec. This weeding out process might be a tad painful on the Admins in terms of headache, but only if we make it so. You'll probably not get any flak if you suggest an execution to the rest of the sec team and they obtain a consensus/majority vote based on the criminals history. (if lone sec then run it by the highest ranking warm body, HoS, Capt, HoP, etc)
Half of us never play sec anyway. Half of those folk would make fine officers, but don't even know it - so lets encourage them to try it by lessening the flak for following your gut as an officer. For those of us who can't follow our gut without being shit, if the admins think you went too far - then please admins feel free to hand out the Job-Ban with impunity. Anyone making a big deal of getting job-banned from Sec is just doing so to make a big deal... because again most of us never play it anyway and get away with more shit being any other role ---- making any other role more suitable for those players that are shitty officers.
Edit: In addition to listing the named location of the Backup Request, the item could be a pinpointer that pinpoints the last distress call and serves as a compass to navigate to the location. There are alot of areas of the ship with names that dont really give a clue where its at.
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - noidedman - 05-08-2016
also maybe unwhitelisting HoS might go further to encourage people to play security.
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - Ed Venture - 05-08-2016
(05-08-2016, 12:25 PM)noidedman Wrote: also maybe unwhitelisting HoS might go further to encourage people to play security.
Terrible idea. Head of Security is there for to teach new security officer players and is trusted from the get go with some powerful weapons. People would not play Head of Security for these reason instead they would play to get the goodies. One of the main reasons why it's a white listed job is because one of the big things a HoS has to do is protect the station from Security itself. So only well known non shit players are chosen from the community. Players trusted by the community and the Admins as a whole are allowed. I agree with Sundance more people should apply for it. Even if you get denied it is a great place to get feedback.
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - Noah Buttes - 05-08-2016
(05-08-2016, 12:25 PM)noidedman Wrote: also maybe unwhitelisting HoS might go further to encourage people to play security.
Jesus Christ, NO!
The whole point of having a white list for the Head of Security position is to ensure that anyone who gets the position won't abuse its power and will be able to prevent the rank and file officers from turning the station into a police state.
The last thing we want is to remove the white list. Then we'll just have a repeat of the T.U.R.D.S. scenario again.
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - noidedman - 05-08-2016
Thats true but 9 times out of 10 I dont see the HoS role get picked up.
its hard to keep directed as a security officer if you have no one actually running the brig, usually you have like 1 or 2 officers on tops and they are pretty limited without the acsess to the HoS's tools.
Maybe add a time limit to the HoS role? Im pretty sure if someones played here for over a month or two they have a good idea whats expected of the HoS role.
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - Ed Venture - 05-08-2016
No still a terrible idea. Also lately I've been playing HoS for this week and having two to three officers with me. I've also been seeing Houka and Sundace getting the HoS role over me in rounds. This could be do to time zones or when you play but I play between 4pm to 2am everyday. Also The T.U.R.D.S are what you are asking for and again terrible idea. It would just lead to people playing security for the wrong reasons and undermine the efforts of everyone who applied or plan to apply to be HoS
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - noidedman - 05-08-2016
that works fine if you happen to already be a part of the white list but I imagine most people who'd want to play HoS simply cant be bothered and/or are unaware that the white list even exists.
also the timezone I play on barely ever see's any HoS's active, of course you will see more HoS players as you are on the whitelist, other players experiences are far different however.
if ya want more direction and more fun it needs to be more accessible imo, other servers manage to do it without turning into shitcurity station, just job ban the terrible ones.
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - Ed Venture - 05-08-2016
(05-08-2016, 01:20 PM)Noah Buttes Wrote: The whole point of having a white list for the Head of Security position is to ensure that anyone who gets the position won't abuse its power and will be able to prevent the rank and file officers from turning the station into a police state.This sums it up right here
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - noidedman - 05-08-2016
(05-08-2016, 12:51 PM)Ed Venture Wrote:(05-08-2016, 12:25 PM)noidedman Wrote: also maybe unwhitelisting HoS might go further to encourage people to play security.
Terrible idea. Head of Security is there for to teach new security officer players and is trusted from the get go with some powerful weapons. People would not play Head of Security for these reason instead they would play to get the goodies. One of the main reasons why it's a white listed job is because one of the big things a HoS has to do is protect the station from Security itself. So only well known non shit players are chosen from the community. Players trusted by the community and the Admins as a whole are allowed. I agree with Sundance more people should apply for it. Even if you get denied it is a great place to get feedback.
(05-08-2016, 01:44 PM)Ed Venture Wrote:(05-08-2016, 01:20 PM)Noah Buttes Wrote: The whole point of having a white list for the Head of Security position is to ensure that anyone who gets the position won't abuse its power and will be able to prevent the rank and file officers from turning the station into a police state.This sums it up right here
but thats the admins job to ensure players with high ranking positions of power dont do that, or other players.
the captain can do exactly the same thing but it isnt whitelisted.
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - Ed Venture - 05-08-2016
Well we are not other servers. You have no idea what you are talking about. Saying I see other HoS players cause I myself am one makes no sense. Anyone with eyes can see them. Noah and I gave great reasons and the actually reasons why its a terrible idea and you refuse to hear any of it
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - 69andahalf - 05-08-2016
HoS used to be un-whitelisted and it basically attracted the shitty, power gamers who want access to the most lethal weapons without having to ask. That isn't going to change if you add a timer, or ban the terrible players as from what I can see from every other server most HoS players try to act out their para-military past by executing the most traitors they can.
You don't need a HoS at all to be a competent security force. The only thing the HoS is there to do is act like a strong leader. Most people who have played more than 2 rounds as a security officer can figure out what makes a good team and what doesn't, you don't need access to the armory to get that knowledge. Hell, the armory isn't even that great, sure it has shotguns but right now tasers are far better at taking down baddies. Anything else in there you can make yourself, or buy from cargo (barring perhaps the flare gun and EOD armor but no one really uses those).
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - Vitatroll - 05-08-2016
The authority of the HoS comes not from access but respect. We know they put in their dues. We know we can trust them. Well, unless one of the admins hop in as one, but I digress. Take away the whitelist and the HoS will lose all of it's relevant power.
Truth is, they're not all that more potent than your standard SecOff. Not sure why people don't believe this. Well, the Beret is majestic I guess.
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - Roomba - 05-08-2016
One of the most common HOS players uses sec equipment solely and entirely for tazing, robbing and beating the crew at random, round after round. Admins have not lifted a finger to stop them. If HOS were unwhitelisted, I don't think very many of the other shitty powergamers would be curtailed either via admin fiat.
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - Ed Venture - 05-08-2016
Can I ask who you are talking about? I mean I've butted heads with other Hos players and I've made it vocal on here before. Like if you were talking about me (which I don't believe you are.) I would not mind if you name dropped me. But in a topic such as this saying you see a shit HoS player means nothing if you don't say who. Even more so if you are using a vauge example to try and push a change.
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - Roomba - 05-08-2016
Fuck it, it's Oar Derhv. I don't want to make this a callout thread or get ragged on for metagrudging so I won't go on about this, I've already said my piece in the SA thread. Either way, it's clear that they haven't changed, do not intend to change their behavior, and are consistently allowed to get away with it round after round. It's not setting a great precedent re: HOSes.