(08-22-2024, 09:38 AM)Meggal Bozale Wrote: I think this is more of an inevitability but really, I think DimWhat/Waffleloffle said it best -- this just feels like a jank sandwich and really only makes sense if you're already deeply invested in the series of events leading to mutantraces 'kind of having hair, but not really'. Also kind of curious -- do saurians get to chose hair color which differs from their scales? Feels like a thing that should exist at this point if they're straight up Going To Have Hair, because to be real, that's where this is going.

Other than that I like the idea of the PR, but maybe tying it into space glue to allow people without this trait to use it would be nice -- and have the glue with this trait do some Cool Stuff besides just allow mutantraces to apply wigs.

(08-29-2024, 12:19 PM)Solenoid Wrote: I personally agree with Kiki, lizards and other mutantraces should have cool, species-fitting customization options and not rely on hair for all their customization needs. I understand that this requires someone to sprite these new customization options, relies on the mutantrace rework being finished, et cetera, but furthering the existing support for wigs beyond them simply being wigs and making changes to customization that are likely to not be able to be reverted, at least without a pretty big amount of pushback, is not the direction I'd personally like to see mutantraces go.

Wigs as "hair" is a stopgap solution, and while I do feel bad for mutantrace players that have to pick between a wig or a hat to play their character how they see them to be, I also don't personally want wigs to become functionally identical to hair, nor for lizards to just have hair straight up. We saw a discussion here about how important the visual uniqueness of mutantraces is- and while I personally didn't agree at the time with the idea that only non-humans should have access to non-standard skin tones- one big takeaway I got from it is that each mutantrace should have at least one "cool thing" that makes them unique to play as and visually sets them apart.

As colorful skin options make lizards visually unique, I have always believed that "real" hair was the one thing that made humans unique. I don't really want to see wigs become hair, nor do I want them to have the same features as hair does. I think wigs are fine, since they're not supposed to be real hair, and they promote mutantrace players to have different characters with different visual identities in this time where mutantraces have no major additional customization options that could serve the same function.

However, making other mutantraces just have hair simultaneously and seriously steps on the toes of what makes humans unique as a "mutantrace". Mind, I don't say this because I worry that nobody will play humans anymore, but rather simply because it feels like it removes the one thing that makes humans unique from them. It's the same idea of everyone getting to wrench off their head, or being able to change colors when they eat organs, or being able to eat bushes. It won't make nobody play skeletons, lizards, or cows, but it'll diminish what makes them unique as a mutantrace and makes no real sense in-universe.

Removing a customization feature like hair for mutantraces would be nigh impossible in the future, and would diminish the desire to make "lizard", "roach", "cow", "pug", or "skeleton" styled customization features once the mutantrace rework is finished. I'm personally not in favor of either PR as a result, and don't believe this is the path we should be taking for customization options.

TL;DR I think we shouldn't just give everyone hair because it makes it a "standard" of customization which could be difficult to replace in the future with more species-unique options and which makes humans have no unique visual traits other than "being human".

(08-29-2024, 09:28 AM)KikiMofo Wrote: My only opinion on this is that lizards shouldn't have hair. Someone sprite and code up some cool lizard frills and scale decoration stuff instead of just giving them normal human hair. Just giving them hair is boring and doesn't make sense, at least to me.

(08-29-2024, 12:41 PM)klushy225 Wrote:

(08-22-2024, 09:38 AM)Meggal Bozale Wrote: I think this is more of an inevitability but really, I think DimWhat/Waffleloffle said it best -- this just feels like a jank sandwich and really only makes sense if you're already deeply invested in the series of events leading to mutantraces 'kind of having hair, but not really'. Also kind of curious -- do saurians get to chose hair color which differs from their scales? Feels like a thing that should exist at this point if they're straight up Going To Have Hair, because to be real, that's where this is going.

Other than that I like the idea of the PR, but maybe tying it into space glue to allow people without this trait to use it would be nice -- and have the glue with this trait do some Cool Stuff besides just allow mutantraces to apply wigs.

(08-29-2024, 12:19 PM)Solenoid Wrote: I personally agree with Kiki, lizards and other mutantraces should have cool, species-fitting customization options and not rely on hair for all their customization needs. I understand that this requires someone to sprite these new customization options, relies on the mutantrace rework being finished, et cetera, but furthering the existing support for wigs beyond them simply being wigs and making changes to customization that are likely to not be able to be reverted, at least without a pretty big amount of pushback, is not the direction I'd personally like to see mutantraces go.

Wigs as "hair" is a stopgap solution, and while I do feel bad for mutantrace players that have to pick between a wig or a hat to play their character how they see them to be, I also don't personally want wigs to become functionally identical to hair, nor for lizards to just have hair straight up. We saw a discussion here about how important the visual uniqueness of mutantraces is- and while I personally didn't agree at the time with the idea that only non-humans should have access to non-standard skin tones- one big takeaway I got from it is that each mutantrace should have at least one "cool thing" that makes them unique to play as and visually sets them apart.

As colorful skin options make lizards visually unique, I have always believed that "real" hair was the one thing that made humans unique. I don't really want to see wigs become hair, nor do I want them to have the same features as hair does. I think wigs are fine, since they're not supposed to be real hair, and they promote mutantrace players to have different characters with different visual identities in this time where mutantraces have no major additional customization options that could serve the same function.

However, making other mutantraces just have hair simultaneously and seriously steps on the toes of what makes humans unique as a "mutantrace". Mind, I don't say this because I worry that nobody will play humans anymore, but rather simply because it feels like it removes the one thing that makes humans unique from them. It's the same idea of everyone getting to wrench off their head, or being able to change colors when they eat organs, or being able to eat bushes. It won't make nobody play skeletons, lizards, or cows, but it'll diminish what makes them unique as a mutantrace and makes no real sense in-universe.

Removing a customization feature like hair for mutantraces would be nigh impossible in the future, and would diminish the desire to make "lizard", "roach", "cow", "pug", or "skeleton" styled customization features once the mutantrace rework is finished. I'm personally not in favor of either PR as a result, and don't believe this is the path we should be taking for customization options.

TL;DR I think we shouldn't just give everyone hair because it makes it a "standard" of customization which could be difficult to replace in the future with more species-unique options and which makes humans have no unique visual traits other than "being human".

I feel that having the option for mutantraces to have hair isn't a bad thing- once there are more mutantrace specific style options, people will gravitate towards those. I know I will. I also disagree with hats and hair being the "human thing," as the human thing is being the basic slate. That, and not costing trait points to play.

(08-29-2024, 01:51 PM)Solenoid Wrote: If any change  goes through, I'd be okay with the wig glue as a stopgap until new customization for mutantraces is added, but I honestly cannot get behind giving every mutantrace hair as an innate part of their customization because it would remove the one thing that sets humans apart from other mutantraces.

(08-30-2024, 01:33 AM)Lord_earthfire Wrote: For as long as one of them isnt merged, it doesn't mske sense to close one or the other.

The PR-stage is also there for competing PR's to exist.

(08-30-2024, 12:49 AM)Kotlol Wrote:

(08-29-2024, 01:51 PM)Solenoid Wrote: If any change  goes through, I'd be okay with the wig glue as a stopgap until new customization for mutantraces is added, but I honestly cannot get behind giving every mutantrace hair as an innate part of their customization because it would remove the one thing that sets humans apart from other mutantraces.

I am fine with adding this "glue trait" regardless but if we're gonna do: "Taksies backsies" then no.

(08-26-2024, 07:44 AM)klushy225 Wrote: well I've made the seperate PR if anyone's interested in it. I probably should have done it from the get-go, honestly. Reasonings explained there, another discussion thread for it will likely pop up.

https://github.com/goonstation/goonstation/pull/20430