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+--- Thread: Pathology Feedback (/showthread.php?tid=15693)
RE: Pathology Feedback - zjdtmkhzt - 01-17-2021
Yeah, I am well aware that the puddles are extremely annoying.
I already made a PR two days ago to replace both clouds and puddles with a decal system that should slip people less, linger less, stop clicks less, and be less visually obnoxious.
Let's hope we can get it merged soon! (:
RE: Pathology Feedback - zjdtmkhzt - 01-17-2021
Puddles are now gone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDU_Txk06tM
RE: Pathology Feedback - onetoughcreampuff - 01-17-2021
I played around with pathology and its working out great, made a couple of good pathogens and also took a opportunity to release a non antags hard worked on bad pathogen as a antag MD. Maybe a ingame book might help ease people into pathology. My only problem is that I use a weird dpi setting (bandaid fix for problems on other servers), i cant access all the buttons as there’s no way to scroll down to reach the other stuff, again i fixed this by messing around with settings. But other than that, it plays out great and I wouldnt mind if it was to be released permanently, with some small fixes.
RE: Pathology Feedback - CommaIndividual - 01-17-2021
(01-17-2021, 01:59 PM)zjdtmkhzt Wrote: Puddles are now gone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDU_Txk06tM
Very nice
RE: Pathology Feedback - Leeanei - 01-19-2021
One week was too short to really get a good grasp on things, tbh. On RP it got much, much less insane but only at the tail end. It actually wasn't all that bad because pathogens generally stayed where they started.
Anyways, intricate system that was vastly improved. I'd give it a "good to go", but that's just my thoughts from a test I think was a little too brief.
RE: Pathology Feedback - Kapu1178 - 01-19-2021
after the first few days and with some issues ironed out, 10/10
RE: Pathology Feedback - Sov - 01-19-2021
Posting since no on else has yet - Pathology has been disabled again
RE: Pathology Feedback - Flourish - 01-19-2021
I would like to see interaction with other crewmembers as a key design principle. On RP, it feels out of place when people working on a pathogen stay cooped up in pathology for the majority of the shift, and don't really roleplay with anyone else or even really say anything besides stuff like "I found a T4". I think someone made the analogy of genetics before the interactivity changes. Additionally, it'd be ideal if the interactions that are designed for don't risk the spreading of dangerous pathogens.
On the topic of RP; my experience has been kinda different from some of the other posters'. I've seen many rounds grind to a halt and many people's experiences soured because someone accidentally spread pathogens or whatever. I think some of the PRs Zjd made have addressed aspects of this, such as reducing the spread of cloud based symptoms and limiting it to one pathogen per person. Though, I'd still like it if the spreading of pathogens were more intentional, or if it were easier to track who was infected. Once a pathogen spreads to more than a handful of the crew, it's pretty difficult to instate a lockdown (and lockdowns in general get kinda old fast) or find and cure them all. Some possible half-formed ideas I had include: sec scanners also reporting infected people, health implants displaying if someone has a pathogen (you can check those using MedTrak or the cloning computer), anti-pathogenic fields that you could buy from QM (like the ones that block atmos or fluids, but they block pathogens and people with pathogens).
RE: Pathology Feedback - Caro - 01-19-2021
So, after playing quite a few rounds over the past week, here are my thoughts on pathology and its impact on the rounds:
First of all: I was very happy to see that nerds that occupy the pathology lab usually make either beneficial viruses or beneficial viruses with some gimmicky symptoms such as bee sneezing. That means the beneficial symptoms are now worth researching and are easy enough to research, so you don't need to put too much effort into it. And if you don't like the gimmicky symptoms, you can very easily cure yourself via supressants.
Which also brings us to the next addressed issue: pathogens were difficult to cure, which is no longer the case. All you really need now is health analyzer to know what you need roughly to cure yourself, or, syringe + blood slide to know what you need exactly.
And as I mentioned in the earlier post, the manipulator UI is also much more user friendly and researching pathogens does not take a long time at all. I'm also really looking forward for the pathologist job PR to be merged and in my opinion, pathology might as well stay enabled.
However, I have an issue with one thing: the pathogen particles and other decals. I know one of the main goals of the whole pathology rework was to make pathogens visible. But, in my opinion, they might as well be removed. The presence of the pathogens can be easily noticed by the symptoms and if you don't have 100% viral protection, avoiding the particles still does not make you safe from them. And despite them spawning less frequently than before, once a pathogen with fairly high spread gets released, they still contaminate the whole station. Which also gives the station an uncomfortable, dirty feel. And even if the pathogen heals all your damage and revives you if you die, you still feel like the station shouts at you: Wear viral protection or you'll catch something nasty.
So here are my few suggestions that'd possibly address the issue:
1. Remove the particles entirely
2. Make particles spawn only if the pathogen has patho farts/sneezing symptom
3. Make them visible only if you're wearing some specific googles
To finish it in positive tone, I highly admire what was done to the whole pathology mechanic and I'm very much looking forward to it being enabled permamently. Great work Zjd!
RE: Pathology Feedback - GORE - 01-19-2021
I so far liked all the changes; but in this following post of mine I am just going to adress one singular thing.
- - -
Perhaps some use could be drawn from making the decal based clouds and puddles have various different colors...based on whether the virus is good or bad.
That might be a solution to people shouting all day long about any type of good virus spreading about.
RE: Pathology Feedback - zjdtmkhzt - 01-19-2021
(01-19-2021, 12:34 PM)TTerc Wrote: However, I have an issue with one thing: the pathogen particles and other decals. I know one of the main goals of the whole pathology rework was to make pathogens visible. But, in my opinion, they might as well be removed. The presence of the pathogens can be easily noticed by the symptoms and if you don't have 100% viral protection, avoiding the particles still does not make you safe from them. And despite them spawning less frequently than before, once a pathogen with fairly high spread gets released, they still contaminate the whole station. Which also gives the station an uncomfortable, dirty feel. And even if the pathogen heals all your damage and revives you if you die, you still feel like the station shouts at you: Wear viral protection or you'll catch something nasty.
So here are my few suggestions that'd possibly address the issue:
1. Remove the particles entirely
2. Make particles spawn only if the pathogen has patho farts/sneezing symptom
3. Make them visible only if you're wearing some specific googles
They do only spawn when a symptom with airborne transmission triggers. (Farting, Sneezing, Coughing, ..)
And avoiding them should protect you even without viral resistance? They won't do anything to you if you don't touch them.
You can still catch things from the pathogen's other symptoms though, like sweating or hugs.
(01-19-2021, 12:49 PM)GORE Wrote: I so far liked all the changes; but in this following post of mine I am just going to adress one singular thing.
- - -
Perhaps some use could be drawn from making the decal based clouds and puddles have various different colors...based on whether the virus is good or bad.
That might be a solution to people shouting all day long about any type of good virus spreading about.
Yup, I had the same thought reading TTerc's post.
Maybe I'll integrate this with the danger-rating stuff I had planned for health scanners.
My original thought was that maybe a pathologist making a good pathogen would just use hugging or infect people manually (with their consent), but I suppose that is unrealistic.
I could see myself implementing something where a common cold, with a minor negative score would be similar to now, while a high danger rating plague would be black or something and a very beneficial pathogen an almost transparent pink.
RE: Pathology Feedback - Mordent - 01-19-2021
I wholeheartedly and vehemently dislike pathology as a feature in general, predominantly because of it being too close to real-life right now. I think it's a poo time to re-add it, and have actively avoided playing this week because of it (so my take is second-hand). That said, I've had to deal with the administrative side of it so:
The number of pathology-related adminhelps has been pretty darned high (understandable), and they are somewhat of a chore to administrate because working out the "why" of a pathogen having escaped can take some time - we can get there, but it's not as simple as seeing "Joe McAssistant attacks Happy the Clown with the toolbox x48" in the logs.
I'd like to see more logging added to be able to tell which strain of a pathogen is being spread around via the pathogen reagents, and the "X is infected by Y" logs should contain a specific location as well (XYZ and area).
RE: Pathology Feedback - virvatuli - 01-19-2021
preface: this only concerns RP because that's where I've parked my butt for the past couple of weeks, and it's my opinion, not other admin's
Pathology is suffering from the same thing that genetics suffers from, but worse. By gameplay design, it promotes isolation from other players. The patho-wizard goes into their ivory tower and studies their pestilent tomes of knowledge to grow more powerful, while interacting with nobody else. They emerge from their germ-ridden bunker to silently release a pathogen, good or bad, upon the population of the station.
For the entire test period, I have seen exactly one good roleplaying interaction between two people studying pathology, and that was them discussing the moral implications of a virus that forced people to stop harming one another. Every other instance has been: a few doctors pile into the lab, they minimally interact with each other while looking at their computers, grunting and farting being the only real noises outside of LOOC talk about how each different functions work.
This leads into my comparison with genetics, all I can think of is how everyone loves to poke fun at them for ignoring everything else going on around them. This is how pathology is, but even more true as there's no gameplay incentive for a pathologist to enlist aid from/interact with the crew prior to their "endgame". If it were to become a permanent staple, I think there really should be something that guides players into crew interactions rather than just locking themselves in a room for the whole shift.
RE: Pathology Feedback - Leeanei - 01-19-2021
reading through Virva/Mordent's comments, I can definitely see where they are coming from.
One big thing is more beneficial symptoms, another would be maybe some sort of way to get a benefit from interacting with crew like genetics?
RE: Pathology Feedback - Rilor - 01-19-2021
I think pathology is currently pretty balanced and in its current state its unlikely to cause too many problems unless one of them is a traitor. But I agree that its a bit low on the interaction side.
Perhaps they should need stuff from cargo in order to do stuff? (like to run the incubator or to get anti-agents) and a teleport pad.
pathology due to its nature will probably always disentivice in person interaction, so they'd have to rely on radios and other methods of remote communication (like mail or PDA) I think a intercom system thing the CE has some maps for pathology would be neat, but not sure why they'd end up actually using it.
another idea is that the pathomatic requires blood from players (importantly not monkeys) to edit pathogens or to test or something and that it will use up more and more the more its used without unique blood being input, not sure how this would actually work while being balanced and not too annoying but its a neat idea