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+--- Thread: a purpose for antag objectives (/showthread.php?tid=9006)
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RE: a purpose for antag objectives - ZeWaka - 06-30-2017
I dunno if it's feasible but if you complete your objectives you could make it so according to the antag assignment weighting system you never had that round as that antag, so you have a higher chance. I dunno, it seems like a minor thing that would slightly encourage people other than having like a token shop thing or whatever
RE: a purpose for antag objectives - babayetu83 - 06-30-2017
if you complete your objectives you should get a statue of yourself someplace on the station in the same vein as the floorpills statue for the duration of the subsequent round
RE: a purpose for antag objectives - Roomba - 06-30-2017
The antag objectives I'd actually like to see people rewarded for completing or even attempting are the fun ones like 'be a supervillain' or 'release anyone who gets caught by sec' or 'become the Phantom of Genetics'. There's no way to track that sort of thing, though.
The thing is, what I'd like to see is antags rewarded for is making an effort to make the round fun for/interacting with as many people as possible in ways that don't involve killing them all. Adding in an objective for 'take this guy out of the round in an even more unfun way than just plain killing him' seems to be missing the forest for the trees.
RE: a purpose for antag objectives - Rhydic - 06-30-2017
(06-30-2017, 07:08 PM)zewaka Wrote: I dunno if it's feasible but if you complete your objectives you could make it so according to the antag assignment weighting system you never had that round as that antag, so you have a higher chance. I dunno, it seems like a minor thing that would slightly encourage people other than having like a token shop thing or whatever
i like this
it would probably work especially well with new objectives that focused on specific destruction targets or goals (e.g. a traitor's goals might be something like render the engine inoperable or destroyed, disable both communication dishes, and acquire 75000 credits) instead of the current "kill x kill y smash bonsai tree escape alive"
maybe for things like roomba suggested a voting option during next round setup could be in place for either the targeted individual or the server as a whole as to whether or not they completed the objective
RE: a purpose for antag objectives - Taximin - 07-01-2017
It's my opinion that any purpose for antag objectives shouldn't be something that just carries over into the next round (e.g. cosmetics) or just makes it more likely for you to be an antagonist again - personally, I still wouldn't do it, because it doesn't underline the fundamental problem with the objectives. Before coming into this thread, I had a bunch of ideas and then saw that everybody else has already beaten me to it, but fuck it, why not.
I think if there was to be a purpose for accomplishing your objectives as an antagonist, the objectives themselves would have to involve more permanent actions and very goal-orientated at that, so that they could be 'claimed' mid-round for in-round benefits/gimmicky events. I could easily see 'objective-only' traitor items becoming a thing that helps steer new objectives; the objectives would also have to be continuous (as in, once you complete one set of objectives, you get another set of objectives and thus unlock more 'objective-only' traitor items).
As for what the in-round benefits are, if we're going with the whole 'objectives need to have a purpose', then obviously the objective-only traitor items should come into play via making it so that you get certain objectives (and thus their respective items) only after you've already completed a few (possibly make these new objectives related to the ones you've done), thus incentivizing objectives via content that you have to earn.
Some of the later objectives could end up having their own events or (in rare circumstances) ending the round prematurely, e.g. setting up beacons in key areas and interfacing with certain consoles (e.g. the communication console after modifying the respective communication dish linked up to it) so that the traitor can call upon allied syndicate drones/a strike team (made up of ghost players, playing similar to nuke team) that invades the station.
Give some of the more damaging objectives (in terms of items) to jobs with little to no access, limit the jobs with all access to none of these objectives and give some specific job-orientated/world ending objectives to jobs like chaplain, botanist and etc.
Somebody mentioned that one of the most effective ways to complete your objective involves killing everyone so that you can do it in peace, no problem: discourage murder sprees (but not prevent them outright) by limiting these objectives/making objectives based off how much of the station is still alive and thus limit the events to something dumb and possibly autocompleting like 'oh look the emergency shuttle comes a lot faster with a team of extremely angry ghost players', making the objectives more rudimentary and less rewarding (your reward becomes people trying to kill you). This might incentivize some people to be more careful and kill only the people they have to, in exchange for a more eventful round.
problems: all of this shit would take way too long and way too much effort to implement and I only 'think' that this would make things more fun, the lack of permanent objects to sabotage on the station makes it harder to have some meaningful objectives and some people can easily argue that this (if this somehow were to become a thing) would change the tone of some rounds too much/is unnecessary because antags have it too easy already (warranting more changes to their balancing/a shift in players attitude towards antags)
edit: murder spreeing might actually become fun if the objectives (which is probably just autocompletion set to a timer) spawn players back in as hostile mobs (e.g. hostile plants, random furniture and etc) that can't talk/turns the whole station into a cheesy B-movie tier scenario, having random events occur more often and causing the round to end quicker (whilst also letting players participate and still let the guy murdering everything, well, murder)
RE: a purpose for antag objectives - Rhydic - 07-04-2017
questionably usable idea: grant traitors a few telecrystals every time they complete an objective
RE: a purpose for antag objectives - NateTheSquid - 07-04-2017
(07-04-2017, 12:19 PM)Rhydic Wrote: unquestionably useless idea: grant traitors a few telecrystals every time they complete an objective
RE: a purpose for antag objectives - babayetu83 - 07-04-2017
(07-04-2017, 01:28 PM)NateTheSquid Wrote:(07-04-2017, 12:19 PM)Rhydic Wrote: unquestionably useful idea: grant traitors a few telecrystals every time they complete an objective
RE: a purpose for antag objectives - awfulworldkid - 07-05-2017
(07-04-2017, 03:38 PM)babayetu83 Wrote:(07-04-2017, 01:28 PM)NateTheSquid Wrote:(07-04-2017, 12:19 PM)Rhydic Wrote: unquestionably useful idea: grant traitors a few telecrystals every time they complete an objective
Though this would require more objectives that can trigger before roundend.
RE: a purpose for antag objectives - Roomba - 07-05-2017
Step 1: Buy cloaker
Step 2: Kill target #1
Step 3: Buy C-saber
Step 4: There is no one left to kill because everyone got tired of being invisibly sabered to death every round and left the server
RE: a purpose for antag objectives - Rhydic - 07-05-2017
then perhaps items should be classed in groups so that only one item from each group can be ordered, or the starting number of telecrystals can be reduced or the costs of said items can be adjusted upwards to prevent that
RE: a purpose for antag objectives - CameronWoof - 07-05-2017
Granting telecrystals for objective completion only increases the snowball effect of rampages. Kill more, get more loot, become harder to stop. Adding more traitor items on top of that is ridiculous.
The problem with objectives is that they aren't followed, which results in rampages. Rampages are the problem being created, please ensure your solution doesn't encourage them further.
RE: a purpose for antag objectives - Musketman12 - 07-05-2017
(06-30-2017, 07:08 PM)zewaka Wrote: I dunno if it's feasible but if you complete your objectives you could make it so according to the antag assignment weighting system you never had that round as that antag, so you have a higher chance. I dunno, it seems like a minor thing that would slightly encourage people other than having like a token shop thing or whateverthis is a good idea right here if i do say so myself
RE: a purpose for antag objectives - Rhydic - 07-05-2017
(07-05-2017, 10:00 AM)CameronWoof Wrote: Granting telecrystals for objective completion only increases the snowball effect of rampages. Kill more, get more loot, become harder to stop. Adding more traitor items on top of that is ridiculous.
The problem with objectives is that they aren't followed, which results in rampages. Rampages are the problem being created, please ensure your solution doesn't encourage them further.
well i mean if you wanted to avoid that, traitors could always have the same number of objectives (3 or 4 or w/e) and only start with 6 crystals with each completed objective supplying another 3 or something like that
they could either use their crystals early on weaker tools or save them as they complete objectives and buy something more powerful to rampage with
unlike most other antags, traitors currently start at full power and potential instead of having to work their way up. making it take a little effort and time to get up to full potential seems like it would be more in line with the rest of the game
RE: a purpose for antag objectives - awfulworldkid - 07-05-2017
(07-05-2017, 11:22 AM)Rhydic Wrote: -snip-
unlike most other antags, traitors currently start at full power and potential instead of having to work their way up. making it take a little effort and time to get up to full potential seems like it would be more in line with the rest of the game
Changelings get some of their best powers (both stings, Lesser Form, and instant dehandcuff) from the start of the round, and wizards get max power as soon as they pick their spells. Werewolves and predators, as rare as they are, also start at full power. Nuke ops have full power from the start, but they share many things with traitors anyway.