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Stronger AI [Synthetic] - Printable Version

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RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - robertGN - 04-22-2017

(04-21-2017, 12:46 PM)Frank_Stein Wrote: Like I've said before, I think all the new AI abilities should be something that can be toggled on or off by the crew, with more powerful ones defaulted to off. Maybe there's a console that requires a head or HoS ID to access it? Not only will it help keep an AI in check, but also create a new dynamic of deception on the part of a rogue AI to convince someone to unlock it's higher functions.

Maybe that console, or another machine also stores the info for waypoints and bookmarks, so you can edit or delete them. If the AI is tracking you with a waypoint, rewrite the info on it to have it tracking the clown instead.

I actually really like the idea of a switch for certain powers, but the capacity for jerks to be jerks exists.

Also, the likelihood of a head activating the AI's powers would diminish as time goes on (they would all die, or otherwise ignore the AI), so you'll just have AIs constantly asking for a switch push at the very beginning of the round in hopes a head will listen to them. I am not entirely sure if this is big problem, but it is something to be aware of.

RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - atamusvaleo - 04-22-2017

I feel this is relevant as well.

A more secure upload and laws setup would go far in increasing the AI's safety.

(03-15-2017, 03:56 PM)atamusvaleo Wrote: CLOSED
Unlocked | Locked | Off (module removed)

[Image: U6VGdrU.png] [Image: UOyo2fy.png] [Image: GGrxXpg.png]

OPEN
Module Removed (off) | Module Unscrewed (off) | Online

[Image: XfNWPZ5.png] [Image: 0uiNK55.png] [Image: ovXGEN2.gif]


[Image: 1KedNcC.gif]


There's the sprite. "Now, what the heck is it?" you might be asking.

The idea is simple. In its current state, the AI upload is incredibly vulnerable. At the slightest mention of the AI upload being open, the entire crew rushes in hoping to get their Cheetos-stained fingers on the law modules. It's then a free-for-all to see who can upload laws the quickest with the click of a button. With this, I hope to eliminate that ease of access and add a little time to the upload process. Here's how it would work:

• The mainframe lockers (4-6) sit in the AI upload chamber bolted to the floor.
• Each mainframe holds a module inside with a law (or blank module) inside.
• A command level ID (or packet tomfoolery) is required to unlock the mainframe locker.
• Once unlocked and opened, unscrew the module from its holder.
• Pluck the module from the console with the aforementioned cheetos-stained fingers.
• Click the module in-hand to edit the current law written on the module.
• Replace the module, screw it in place, and watch as the world burns.

With this system, we could instill law precedence, as in law 1 takes precedence over laws 2-6.

PS: I am unsure of how to go about creating the dmi for this. I'd be more than happy to do so but it may take some time for me to figure it out on my own. I can upload whatever files are needed if this idea takes off and is to be implemented.


RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - poland spring - 04-22-2017

no do not make it harder to upload laws that is one of the few joys of being an AI at the moment

RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - Maegor - 04-22-2017

(04-22-2017, 09:16 AM)atamusvaleo Wrote: Idea

I really like that idea, making the AI harder to subvert could warrant making it more powerful

RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - Frank_Stein - 04-22-2017

I'm not a fan of law numbers taking precedence based on order. The reason Asimov laws do that is just for ease of cross referencing other laws, not because they're necessarily more important.

RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - Cirrial - 04-22-2017

Make it so you need to use a non networked ThinkDOS computer and special program to modify the AI laws.

Maybe I should tone down my simmering misanthropy.

RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - NateTheSquid - 04-23-2017

(04-22-2017, 08:04 AM)robertmanbob Wrote:
(04-21-2017, 12:46 PM)Frank_Stein Wrote: Like I've said before, I think all the new AI abilities should be something that can be toggled on or off by the crew, with more powerful ones defaulted to off. Maybe there's a console that requires a head or HoS ID to access it? Not only will it help keep an AI in check, but also create a new dynamic of deception on the part of a rogue AI to convince someone to unlock it's higher functions.

Maybe that console, or another machine also stores the info for waypoints and bookmarks, so you can edit or delete them. If the AI is tracking you with a waypoint, rewrite the info on it to have it tracking the clown instead.

I actually really like the idea of a switch for certain powers, but the capacity for jerks to be jerks exists.

Also, the likelihood of a head activating the AI's powers would diminish as time goes on (they would all die, or otherwise ignore the AI), so you'll just have AIs constantly asking for a switch push at the very beginning of the round in hopes a head will listen to them. I am not entirely sure if this is big problem, but it is something to be aware of.
They shouldn't be off by default unless the abilities you plan on giving are like, remote explosions or some shit. The bot possession seems fine, but like the blowing things remotely seems dumb. And yeah what robertmanbob said. Default on powers seems gooooood. With an off switch being a thing. Anyone randomly meta-turns off your stuff, rat them out to the crew until everyone makes fun of them

RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - Sov - 04-23-2017

why not just make some of he more dangerous suggestions (apc overload, control bots, etc) act like other antag abilities with their own abilities tab and cooldowns?

RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - YoukCat - 04-23-2017

(04-23-2017, 04:26 AM)Sov Wrote: why not just make some of he more dangerous suggestions (apc overload, control bots, etc) act like other antag abilities with their own abilities tab and cooldowns?

While this would help for possible Traitor AIs in the future, we're trying to make it so the AI is more than a door opener. Controlling the Bots might just be that. But yeah, the APC Overlord might be a bit much for a common AI

RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - Lady Birb - 04-23-2017

Questionable idea: all the dangerous abilities would be disabled by default, but if someone enables them in the upload, there would be no way to turn them back off.

RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - Frank_Stein - 04-23-2017

Another idea: Give it a resource cost, with each ability having a drain on the stations engine. More powerful ones require a good engine burn, or for the AI to divert power away from other areas. Conversely, shut off the engine to depower the AI.

It's really up to how the community feels about whether or not the AI needs a system of checks and balances on what it can do.

RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - Nnystyxx - 04-23-2017

I had the idea at one point of the AI spending a limited amount of 'memory' from roundstart to go through a skill tree/just pick stuff. A decent crop, but not every single ability (assuming they're given a large variety). Some AIs might always pick a certain set, so you start to recognize them and what they can do to help, others wait to adapt to what other people request/the task at hand, so on and so forth.

AI resets might allow reallocating skills.

The purpose of this: give AI skills that matter and feel developed, while allowing some limitations and also some extra flavor for destiny-type stuff

RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - NateTheSquid - 04-23-2017

(04-23-2017, 08:52 PM)Nnystyxx Wrote: I had the idea at one point of the AI spending a limited amount of 'memory' from roundstart to go through a skill tree/just pick stuff. A decent crop, but not every single ability (assuming they're given a large variety). Some AIs might always pick a certain set, so you start to recognize them and what they can do to help, others wait to adapt to what other people request/the task at hand, so on and so forth.

AI resets might allow reallocating skills.

The purpose of this: give AI skills that matter and feel developed, while allowing some limitations and also some extra flavor for destiny-type stuff

i like this idea

edit: Also the AI should be able to effectively emag doors open/closed, but also give the AI the ability to fix emagged doors in a hacking process similar to the armory door

RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - Superlagg - 04-23-2017

Make their subroutine cores spread out in multiple (well guarded) locations in the station. If the AI wants to be a jackass and play stuncraft with a million Beeplings, it'd better protect that core *and* itself. Also lets the crew cripple a bastard AI without immediately skipping to TTVing the TV guy.

Keep in mind that only one person plays the AI much of the time, and there's only so many plates that one person can keep spinning. The AI's main difficulty in doing impressive things should be in keeping these plates of the ground. You're more than welcome to focus on being a chatty doorbell and keep those plates to a minimum, but whatever beyond that should require a level of cold, methodical multitasking that better fits the role of AI.

This job should be stressful and soul crushing, but powerful in the right hands (both it's and the subverter's). You *are* the station, after all.

RE: Stronger AI [Synthetic] - Frank_Stein - 04-23-2017

(04-23-2017, 08:52 PM)Nnystyxx Wrote: I had the idea at one point of the AI spending a limited amount of 'memory' from roundstart to go through a skill tree/just pick stuff. A decent crop, but not every single ability (assuming they're given a large variety). Some AIs might always pick a certain set, so you start to recognize them and what they can do to help, others wait to adapt to what other people request/the task at hand, so on and so forth.

AI resets might allow reallocating skills.

The purpose of this: give AI skills that matter and feel developed, while allowing some limitations and also some extra flavor for destiny-type stuff

I like that a lot. The more basic powers should be free (like wizards magic missle) but the more powerful stuff requires thinking about your play strategy.

You can always readjust with some help from the crew or tailor you new load out to someone who subverts you when they reset the load out for you.

Maybe even throw in some upgrades like more RAM for more slots to fill with powers or new powers altogether. I bet you could find some real heinous AI abilities out in the Adventure Zone.
That actually opens up a ton of ideas for ability branches. For instance, a branch centering around surveillance could include:

With a camera system like this
[Image: hzS4tGr.jpg]
Where your vision is within the radius of a circle around the cameras, one line of upgrade could be expanding those circles to have a progressively larger radius.

Another line of powers on that same branch would be the alternate vision modes for heat, gas, and electric

Alternatively, a branch that focused on a more hands on AI would include bot commands, deployment, and possession.

AI players would have a lot more uniqueness to them with style differences, and a war for control between two different AI's becomes a lot more interesting as they work with the loadouts they picked.

It's a really good idea Nnystyxx.

I'd love to hear from an Admin or coder their thoughts on what's been said so far