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+--- Thread: Security Thread 4.0: Oh no (/showthread.php?tid=6349)
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - Boon Yoon - 05-06-2016
One of the few moments I have seen successful and fun security was when someone, I believe it was Dions, announced his intention to be HoS, and asked people to join him in a sec train. People actually signed up, and there was a crew of fun security roaming the station actually using non-lethal methods to police the insanity.
At the time, I didn't join in because I knew nothing of security, but now whenever I try it out, I find that I am alone. I now have sec as low priority because it's just as described in this thread. While this isn't much of a solution, I do feel that if HoS players announce their intention to be proper security, others will follow. Such is bound to be more fun than going at it alone.
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - Noah Buttes - 05-06-2016
(05-06-2016, 07:14 PM)Boon Yoon Wrote: One of the few moments I have seen successful and fun security was when someone, I believe it was Dions, announced his intention to HoS, and asked people to join him in a sec train. People actually signed up, and there was a crew of fun security roaming the station actually using non-lethal methods to police the insane crew.
At the time, I didn't join in because I knew nothing of security, but now whenever I try it out, I find that I am alone. I now have sec as low priority because it's just as described in this thread. While this isn't much of a solution, I do feel that if HoS players announce their intention to be proper security, others will follow. Such is bound to be more fun than going at it alone.
I was there for that round.
Security was indeed fun.
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - Ed Venture - 05-06-2016
(05-06-2016, 06:36 PM)Xeram Wrote: Literally any time I play security, whether it's a traitor murdering dudes or just two nerds in a fight I'm trying to break up, the moment I've stunned one of them or have someone cuffed and I'm bringing them to sec/just away from eachother for a second so they can talk things out, every damn crewmember in the area who isn't sec starts doing everything they can to fuck me up and let the guy go free, even if they weren't previously involved. Whether it's dragging the cuffed dudes away trying to uncuff them or trying to steal my gear while I have them barely detained, as long as I'm sec and not just some vig with a gun or something, the crew tries to do everything in it's power to fuck with sec. God forbid I tase or flash one of these idiots doing this, because next thing I know once I have that traitor or the two belligerents in sec, there's a small greytide mob outside or intercepting me on the way.
Did I mention shit like this seems only to happen when I play sec?
Start using the port-a-brig and the annoyance of people "saving" the person you arrest vanish. Also if people keep fucking with you which leads to the point where you can't do your job then adminhelp it. Admins have said to adminhelp people who do this to security.
I have not had a terrible time as security since Cogmap2 dropped minus the 3 months I did not play recently.
(05-06-2016, 07:14 PM)Boon Yoon Wrote: I do feel that if HoS players announce their intention to be proper security, others will follow. Such is bound to be more fun than going at it alone.
I used to do this and also tell my officers to not be shit along with use teamwork and to tell each other when and why they throw someone in the brig. I still tell them the last two things but stopped telling them not to be shit cause other players would give me shit for "not trusting my officers"
Your story makes me want to start announcing this to my officers and to the crew again. The people who gave me shit for doing that most likely were never on the reviving end of shit security and trying to explain why telling the officers that I won't put up with shit sec keeps the officers on their best behavior was like trying to teach Latin to a brick wall.
Also as a general rule of thumb when I play Head of Security if people keep fucking with me and keep being shit. I give them three chances to stop. This tends to include me warning them to fuck off, then arresting them if they keep it up and if they still have not learned anything I flat out kill them. Which leads to me adminhelping why they deserved to be chucked out a airlock which is the closest any Security officer will get to doing paperwork. Though out the years I played Security and the two years I've been HoS I've only had to do that Five times.
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - Vitatroll - 05-07-2016
About 8 our of 10 rounds I play are just rampages. Antags are balanced around the presence of counterforces. Little to no security means the antags basically get to do what they want until they get bored. This is what happens on rounds with 20-30 people. This really cuts into game dynamics, and I have no clue how it can be fixed outside of hitler-level ideas like mandatory sec a la AI an zi Capitaine. Even then you'd just have even more braindead sec.
Well... was there ever a guide for being sec on goonstation? A masterclass by veterans of sec for the new officer to read? The wiki reads more like it's trying to keep somebody from getting ahelped.
(Yes I'm repeating myself I'm sure. It's 4am and I just woke up)
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - Sundance - 05-07-2016
The funny thing is about sec is that it's actually the most rewarding of all the jobs when you have a HoS, Sec officer and Detective actually pulling their weight within the team, particularly the detective. On the flip-side I'm almost always on my own, and that's probably the least rewarding. You don't got anybody to play good cop bad cop, you don't got anyone to be sarcastic with on sec frequency. Sec when I handle it as HoS, I try to mold as "boys with big guns club" and generally encourage lighthearted bullying towards the crew and less lighthearted bullying towards antagonists.
I have HoS set to medium priority but because literally nobody else does, I almost always roll HoS. I almost always die, doesn't matter how robust I think I am, it's a matter of rolling the dice every time you bump into an antagonist, because there's almost always something you don't consider. You need to have something or someone to have your back and that ain't possible.
People should apply for HoS more (you'd be surprised at who actually thinks your good ingame, take a look at my hos application all that time ago for example) and people should roll sec more, because it's kind of a thing that needs to snowball itself. You see on the OOC "that was a fun sec round", but that's because there was sec there. It's an either or scenario. Sec existing = fun. No sec = not fun.
I would also try to employ security but i'd find myself confiscating PDA's (to stop traitors entering ranks) and giving them Sec PDA's instead, but that might ruffle feathers if anything. A traitor who's pretending to be sec (and succeeding) is a dangerous foe.
Security is most fun when arresting is possible but people get annoyed when they're being arrested for minor things. And you'd get whined at "Why don't you arrest X or Y who's actually doing shit things" and often they'd be right, but those people are a little slippy to catch than the dude breaking a window infront of a sec officer because he thinks its ok. Personally I think B&E, Manslaughter (killing someone that needs not be killed, or accidental killing), theft, stealing budget, destruction of property should all be things that warrant arrest but it's HARD to enforce that when you don't have the numbers.
Things that would improve security:
1. Overhaul sec records to be completely simplified. Currently it's a bloated mess that nobody will even bother reading. Make it so it's just Name/Job, Tickets & Fines, Arrest status y/n, and number of times incarcerated. (I'd argue med records need to be simplified too) That way it's streamlined, fines and tickets are done remotely, and people putting the arrest status can actually see "oh that dudes being naughty"
2. Fix the cameras. They are utterly useless and are literally just there for show. I don't understand where Aux port maint is, I shouldn't need to know. Rename it to "west botany maint" and the like. Stop it from jumping to the start when you're cycling through, that or have it have a cycle mode of departments, like cycle the bar cameras, clicking to progress instead of cancelling out to that awful awful list. Best would be to have a map GUI and do it like that, but that's too much effort.
3. Instead of having camera helmets, have it that all sec armor has cameras on them, and is visible on the sec cameras. The cameras will be disrupted if the sec officer is unconscious or stunned for balance reasons.
This makes security more connected.
4. Make the tripwires in the armory/brig of actual use. Currently all they do is make a "beep boop" noise and that's of no use. Make it so it pings a sec freq on a pda, alerting sec, randomize that freq every round. That way nerds could set off the freq on purpose, confusing the heck outta sec, or even disable it.
5. Re-arranging the brig, 69andahalf did a good job there. Having a brig monkey
6. Including the armor fix Buttes has on the patch forum.
7. Unnerf the riot shotguns (why were these nerfed in the first place? It's useless to security now and the barman too. If you think they're too strong, just have it that there's less ammo available.)
8. Giving security more ways to punish a player. Currently it's either fining, arresting, or executing. The more creative punishments are often grody, like removing the perps eyes. I'd like to see shock packs to be shock collars instead, taking up a head slot, as shock packs remove the bag slot and most players would actually prefer to be executed at that stage. The stocks idea is good.
9. Make it so court cases (as rare as they are, they are good) are more streamlined. A voting system put into place, I done sprites on it, can't be arsed to find them, would be good. Although I'm open to ideas on how this actually would need to be streamlined.
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - Noah Buttes - 05-07-2016
(05-07-2016, 03:13 AM)Sundance Wrote: WORDSI love everything in this.
Everything.
I'll write a more thorough analysis when I get the chance.
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - Frank_Stein - 05-07-2016
All good ideas from Sundance, particularly the camera network one. Whenever I'm a Detective I like stuffing myself into random hiding spots and checking the cameras, and it's awful to navigate.
I personally like the idea of having it managed into a list of different clickable networks divided up by general area and then just being able to cycle through those cameras rapidly with left and right.
As for more punishments, some kind of house arrest thing would be nice. Shock collars that activate when you leave a certain area, maybe just an ankle bracelet shoe things that pings security PDAs
Sometimes I like to take problem prisoners and take them out into the space z-level and maroon them somewhere. A better place for this out in space purpose built for this would be nice, since the actual prison satellite is pretty bare and dangerous.
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - 69andahalf - 05-07-2016
The current camera console is a huge hog to use. What would be nice as sundance said would be to have it not refresh the position of the scroll bar every time you click a camera, and have arrows to go to the previous or next camera on the console.
Perhaps clip-on cameras rather than full out inbuilt cameras in security's armor though? Something that just spawns in the locker with all the other security equipment.
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - Noah Buttes - 05-07-2016
(05-07-2016, 11:15 AM)Frank_Stein Wrote: All good ideas from Sundance, particularly the camera network one. Whenever I'm a Detective I like stuffing myself into random hiding spots and checking the cameras, and it's awful to navigate.
I personally like the idea of having it managed into a list of different clickable networks divided up by general area and then just being able to cycle through those cameras rapidly with left and right.
As for more punishments, some kind of house arrest thing would be nice. Shock collars that activate when you leave a certain area, maybe just an ankle bracelet shoe things that pings security PDAs
Sometimes I like to take problem prisoners and take them out into the space z-level and maroon them somewhere. A better place for this out in space purpose built for this would be nice, since the actual prison satellite is pretty bare and dangerous.
I like shock collars and ankle bracelets.
I didn't even know the prison satellite was still around anymore.
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - RAWK_LAWBSTAR - 05-07-2016
(05-06-2016, 04:11 PM)Ed Venture Wrote: The only way security can be made easier is if the crimer's arrested themselves. To play Security your going to have to be a tad robust and able to put up with alot of shit. NO amount of dumbing down will ever change that.
Plus with all the tools Security has now it can be easy as hell to play sometimes. I think the issue around that is most players are not aware of the tools they have. Like for example the port-a-brig. Even with it getting a PDA function the thing hardly gets used. Also Security can be hard if you or your teammates can't use teamwork or not be shit. Trying to take care of a shit officer while other things are going down can be such a headache
Also It's easy to say "make it easier to play" without throwing any suggestions on how it should be made easier.
Well then here's a suggestion: goggles that display someone's security status visually, i.e. beepsky vision. So if they're set to arrest it puts a nice big target around them. This would make the officer vulnerable to a flash though and would allow anyone with access to security records to send security after the wrong guy.
Another suggestion I made in the past is a paint gun that tags people with glowing fluorescent dye or thermal dye that shows up through walls on thermals to achieve a similar effect. Of course it'd be fun if grubby staff assistants could put regular paint or doctors to fill it with stypic powder or synthflesh.
I want toys that make it visually easier to identify people because with vision as bad as mine by the time I can confirm who I'm looking at they're already gone or I'm stunned, dying, or dead because I wanted to take the time to make sure I got the right guy.
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - noidedman - 05-07-2016
remove space law
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - Naximous - 05-07-2016
I don't even play security.
Why?
Because i don't get rewarded for doing my job.
Genetics get their superpowers.
Scientists get their deathchems and telescience stuff
Bartender and chef get to socialize with people when security officers get called shitheads.
Botanists get dank weed.
Engineers... well they have an engine that gets hotter than sun and a laser.
But what does security get for arresting criminal scums? They get the title shitcurity.
How about giving them something nice?
Arrest a criminal = Get an upgraded powercell for your stun baton! etc
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - Arborinus - 05-08-2016
(05-07-2016, 11:31 PM)Naximous Wrote: I don't even play security.
Why?
Because i don't get rewarded for doing my job.
Genetics get their superpowers.
Scientists get their deathchems and telescience stuff
Bartender and chef get to socialize with people when security officers get called shitheads.
Botanists get dank weed.
Engineers... well they have an engine that gets hotter than sun and a laser.
But what does security get for arresting criminal scums? They get the title shitcurity.
How about giving them something nice?
Arrest a criminal = Get an upgraded powercell for your stun baton! etc
I remember a suggestion to have NPC prisoners be shipped in and held for a while in the brig to give sec a reward. Probably should revive that thread in suggestions rather than here though. (I think it might have been my flavor garbage thread?)
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - Grek - 05-08-2016
I want a machine that lets me set contraband levels. Fighting a blob? Flamethrowers are now open carry! Botany making weed? Inform Officer Beepsky weed is now highly illegal.
RE: Security Thread 4.0 - Ed Venture - 05-08-2016
(05-07-2016, 03:13 AM)Sundance Wrote: 1. Overhaul sec records to be completely simplified. Currently it's a bloated mess that nobody will even bother reading. Make it so it's just Name/Job, Tickets & Fines, Arrest status y/n, and number of times incarcerated. (I'd argue med records need to be simplified too) That way it's streamlined, fines and tickets are done remotely, and people putting the arrest status can actually see "oh that dudes being naughty"
Yeah agreed as someone who does use the security records to set people to arrest it takes way too much time to simply set someone to arrest having them simplified for a much faster experience would be great.
(05-07-2016, 03:13 AM)Sundance Wrote: 2. Fix the cameras. They are utterly useless and are literally just there for show. I don't understand where Aux port maint is, I shouldn't need to know. Rename it to "west botany maint" and the like. Stop it from jumping to the start when you're cycling through, that or have it have a cycle mode of departments, like cycle the bar cameras, clicking to progress instead of cancelling out to that awful awful list. Best would be to have a map GUI and do it like that, but that's too much effort.
Yeah some of the names for locations across the station confuse me as well.
(05-07-2016, 03:13 AM)Sundance Wrote: 3. Instead of having camera helmets, have it that all sec armor has cameras on them, and is visible on the sec cameras. The cameras will be disrupted if the sec officer is unconscious or stunned for balance reasons.
This makes security more connected.
YES! Cameras on Security officer's armor or Uniform would be amazing. It would help a HoS keep track of a possible shit officer. Also have them send out a "Last know location" to your PDA when the officer is killed or knocked out.
(05-07-2016, 03:13 AM)Sundance Wrote: 4. Make the tripwires in the armory/brig of actual use. Currently all they do is make a "beep boop" noise and that's of no use. Make it so it pings a sec freq on a pda, alerting sec, randomize that freq every round. That way nerds could set off the freq on purpose, confusing the heck outta sec, or even disable it.
Another great idea I also say give a HoS the ability to add on to the tripwire later into the round if they want to make traps for any thieves
(05-07-2016, 03:13 AM)Sundance Wrote: 5. Re-arranging the brig, 69andahalf did a good job there. Having a brig monkey
Yeah his remapping of Security was great and a massive improvement to what we have now but there are some issues I have but Grek already pointed them out in that thread
(05-07-2016, 03:13 AM)Sundance Wrote: 6. Including the armor fix Buttes has on the patch forum.
Yes. Nothing else needs to be said here.
(05-07-2016, 03:13 AM)Sundance Wrote: 7. Unnerf the riot shotguns (why were these nerfed in the first place? It's useless to security now and the barman too. If you think they're too strong, just have it that there's less ammo available.)
They got nerfed cause I complained about them on IRC and somewhat here and thankfully Cogwerks agreed with me. Yeah the dude who plays security all the time wanted them nerf. I hate how stun weapons and chems are so good in this game and before the nerf to these shotguns they did a shit ton a brute damage and stunned you for a unbelievable long time just from one shot and people tended to unload the whole entire clip into you, Leaving you in crit in worst cases and leaving you unable to move. Did they mean to get nerfed this hard? Maybe. I like the nerf but maybe a tiny buff would be fine. Stun Weapons before the nerf and before the stun affects were balanced out pretty much made anyone with them a one man army and you can still be if you place your shots well. I blame the increase level of stun fights to the stamina system but that topic is neither here nor there. Anyways I disagree with this the shotguns were OP as fuck and a nerf was needed. Just keep in mind that I was using these weapons on people and saw how OP they were I hardly had them used on me. Just wanted to throw that out there before someone says I had a kneejerk reaction to them.
(05-07-2016, 03:13 AM)Sundance Wrote: 8. Giving security more ways to punish a player. Currently it's either fining, arresting, or executing. The more creative punishments are often grody, like removing the perps eyes. I'd like to see shock packs to be shock collars instead, taking up a head slot, as shock packs remove the bag slot and most players would actually prefer to be executed at that stage. The stocks idea is good.
You say things those things are grody but I think shock collars would be a terrible idea and would get misused almost immediately. I agree we should have more ways to dish out punishment but I don't think giving us the option to completely dominate the prisoner will lead to any creative moments.
(05-07-2016, 03:13 AM)Sundance Wrote: 9. Make it so court cases (as rare as they are, they are good) are more streamlined. A voting system put into place, I done sprites on it, can't be arsed to find them, would be good. Although I'm open to ideas on how this actually would need to be streamlined.
Going to be honest here. I find court cases extremely boring. Sure it gets more people involved on the punishment but I am always just waiting for it to end when I am the one being punished. I always think "Jesus just get on with it". As they are now I find them boring more options to make it somewhat faster and more interaction with the crew is something I can get behind.
(05-08-2016, 03:15 AM)Grek Wrote: I want a machine that lets me set contraband levels. Fighting a blob? Flamethrowers are now open carry! Botany making weed? Inform Officer Beepsky weed is now highly illegal.
Great idea, should be added to Sundances idea for the Sec records computer