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+---- Thread: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only (/showthread.php?tid=4949)
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - Kubius - 06-13-2015
With all this stuff in the replies, it seems my perception that Dragon's Breath was easy to get in gib-capable quantities was mistaken. Now, considering the requirements, it makes more sense to me than it did at first in terms of balance - it's still absurdly powerful, but to get enough quantity to supply that power takes more effort than I realized.
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - Selmy - 06-13-2015
didn't some guy a while back abuse the fuck out of prions every round? He basically gave himself immunity and then ran around gassing the entire station to death. They didn't do anything about that
BaneOfGiygas Wrote:Scrumpys Wrote:I can confirm this. If I'm gonna be perfectly honest, the fact that the guy was able to wreak as much havoc as he did with the stuff is worthy of applause.vampirate Wrote:To clarify... basically Dragon's Breath requires patience, and a big arti beaker to make. A sleepy pen, and if you try to make it with an artibeaker you're looking at a long time. Using a watering can you can combine the five ingrediants twice. This makes twenty units, then you have to use another watering can, and transfer it over. Trust me. A good db round is reliant on getting an artibeaker, and at then it took twenty minutes prep to get going. I could have bombed the entire station in that time. DB doesn't need a nerf.
This pretty much. DB takes quite large amounts of ingredients to make in any significant quantity, so its a lotta work.
didn't some guy a while back abuse the fuck out of prions every round? He basically gave himself immunity and then ran around gassing the entire station to death. They didn't do anything about that
if some guy now is just using sleepy pens, I doubt admins are really gonna care too much.
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - Marquesas - 06-14-2015
Grayshift Wrote:I think the DB penning is just one guy who runs things into the ground.
That said, if someone is doing a routine of running things into the ground, players are not the only ones prone to kneejerk reactions.
Consider that before repeatedly doing things people.
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - vampirate - 06-14-2015
I only did it once myself. And I've not seen someone else do it. I am pretty sure this is a knee jerk reaction to one round where someone got mad that they got gibbed thirty minutes in and had to wait fifty minutes for a shuttle. Dragon's breath without an artibeaker is just not worth the effort. To be clear, even WITH a beaker it's still not entirely worth the effort. I just wanted to do something different.
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - Kubius - 06-14-2015
vampirate Wrote:I only did it once myself. And I've not seen someone else do it.
You're Dickson Ormus, right? If so, I've only been penned by you once that I can remember. That said, I've gotten penned several other times that I can very clearly remember - once, I was repairing a hull breach near Genetics and someone ran up to me with a bio-suit and incinerated me while I was repairing, and another time while I was a Quartermaster camping in QM trying to make money.
As another example of something I thought was quite annoying to get hit by, there's Seething Tomatoes via mail, which share the ability of an immense amount of firepower with very little warning after time invested to build them up, but have a few heavily mitigating factors: First, you have a brief moment to run, second, you know where it's originating from, third, it can easily be found by AI or onlookers, and fourth, it restricts you to mail targets. Dragon's Breath via pen has none of these downsides: it's precise, leaves no evidence of who was killed, entirely without collateral damage and almost completely unavoidable.
If ashification was limited to INGEST only (because it's a drink), that would require a brief stun. This has two effects: revealing their identity to you and any onlookers, even if only briefly, and giving you an opportunity to run before they can stun you. This would eliminate my biggest problem with Dragon's Breath via pen which is the inability to react - if I was being dealt extremely heavy BURN damage, I would probably still die, but I'd have a chance to call out over the radio / apply healing chems / etc. It'd basically turn INGEST into EI NATH and sleepy-pen injection into Immolate - still powerful, but not an insta-firegib.
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - vampirate - 06-14-2015
Fun fact. The AI reported me that round.
Secondly, it's usually someone with access to chem.
Third, people oft have a chance to yell.
Fourth, it's RNG dependant
Fifth, you have to get close to someone
Sixth, if anyone else is around you're outted and they'll come down on you with lethal force
Seventh, Poison bottles spawn gibbis and nanomachines for no work and they work at 1 unit
Eighth, you can not loot your kills.
Ninth, Perfluro in a hypo and a stun stick yields similar results in half the time
Tenth, traitors are meant to be overpowered. Antags as well. There is a reason I said ei nath after every kill. Wizards get a homing stun and a non-rng version of this that is instant and refreshes. To do this gimmick effectively it takes a lot of variables, work, and a bit of finesse and luck.
It has mitigating factors, and the whole advantage to it is in the end of you do it well it is effective. So is a perfluro in a hypo and a csaber for that matter, or the chefs knife, or the botanists chainsaw.
Complaining that something that takes a proper plant growth and mutation, a decent supply of welding fluid, a chemmaster, and the transferring of 20 full glasses of bourbon to an artifact beaker works to well is just silly.
Another fun fact. Three time's I've tried this gimmick, Once it has worked.
The more preparation and knowledge intensive methods are going to be more effective. Fun fact, all you need to gib a corpse is water and potassium. a pipe bomb is cake to make.
A round lasts an hour tops most the time. Are you really complaining about something that requires a third or more of that time to prepare? Cause the other two times that failed it took about forty minutes.
Initro got ran into the ground, they made bath salts harder to find. Now no one bothers making it because it's just easier to shoot someone to death or blow them up. You nerf all the fun ways to kill someone into something stupidly complex and you're going to end up with rampages every round where people just get dumped into a waiting grinder in the trash. Same result, little variation, and much less fun to watch over and over.
The things an antag does aren't supposed to be enjoyable by the victim. They're the victim.
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - Ed Venture - 06-14-2015
vampirate Wrote:traitors are meant to be overpowered. Antags as well.
The things an antag does aren't supposed to be enjoyable by the victim. They're the victim.
SO much truth from your post. Too many people have forgotten that (admins included) and is why I get so upset at needless nerfs. Throwing it out there that I agree with vampirate and others in saying this is a knee-jerk reaction
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - APARTHEID - 06-14-2015
can't tell the difference between kubius and berrik anymore
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - vampirate - 06-15-2015
I did want to cap this off by adding that it's not a terrible idea to make milk available in vending machines. Just so there is a remedy nearby at all times. Most won't make it, but it does add a little balance against people abusing this.
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - Vitatroll - 06-15-2015
I also like the idea of milk from venders because of other reasons. Also because milk is a refreshing drink that I assume comes from bees. This is off topic, but I don't really think it needs it's own. Maybe.
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - vampirate - 06-15-2015
Allow bees to be milked 2015.
Bee town is the land of milk and honey.
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - Vunterslaush - 06-15-2015
Add a cow imo.
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - vampirate - 06-15-2015
a large be with a cow pattern?
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - 69andahalf - 06-15-2015
vampirate Wrote:Allow bees to be milked 2015.
Re: Limit Dragon's Breath disintegration to ingestion only - Frank_Stein - 06-15-2015
Replace the reagent extractor in botany with a robot cow that eats things and is milked to extract it.