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+--- Thread: Traitor Telecrystal Rework\Buffs (/showthread.php?tid=4301)
Re: Traitor Telecrystal Rework\Buffs - DyssalC - 03-04-2015
Dauntasa Wrote:Unless someone unnerfed it and it isn't utterly worthless anymore I don't see why the cloak is 7 crystals when in terms of effectiveness it is now basically a novelty paperweight and when, for powerful melee weapons, the only thing an esword(the thing people aren't supposed to have with a cloak) has over a stunbaton(the thing that anyone can get with about 2-3 minutes of effort whether they're a traitor or not) is that it's faster. If you successfully bean someone with a baton they are absolutely just as dead as if you'd sworded them, you just have to take 30 seconds to steal all their shit and space them.Stun baton has charges, doesn't make a super loud obvious sound, doesn't do as much damage as a c-saber, the stun can be negated with drugs, and is very easy to accidentally stun yourself with if you forget to turn it off before beating them or byond ignores your input.
So actually they are two very different things. Who knew?
Re: Traitor Telecrystal Rework\Buffs - Roomba - 03-04-2015
Pacra Wrote:Let's talk for a moment about the cloak - how is it these days, is it truly as effective as a paperweight? What would happen if melee+cloak combos became a thing again?
Never really saw the old cloak in action (I presume they're talking about when using a weapon while cloaked wouldn't reveal you), but I've seen plenty of cloaked rampages with the current cloaked and they've been fairly effective even with that limitation. The nerf to thermals means there's less incentive to wear them around as a matter of course, which gives cloakers a bit more breathing room, and of course quite a lot of people have no trouble sabering the entire station to death even without a cloaker. I dunno, it still seems like a problematic combo.
Re: Traitor Telecrystal Rework\Buffs - Ed Venture - 03-04-2015
Pacra Wrote:Let's talk for a moment about the cloak - how is it these days, is it truly as effective as a paperweight? What would happen if melee+cloak combos became a thing again?
I don't see too many people use the cloak that much at all anymore. Of course I cannot not speak for everyone on that, just how I see it from my point of view. I'm very conflicted when it comes to it. I hate how hard it got nerfed when I feel like making it cost more TC would have been a better choice since thermals have been nerfed to the point that no one at all uses them at all anymore. But at the same time I feel like the cloak is fairly balanced as it is right now. So I am pretty much neutral on it. As for a melee and cloak combo I'm fine with that returning since as soon as you attack the cloak turns off.
Re: Traitor Telecrystal Rework\Buffs - Dr_Bee - 03-04-2015
part of the reason people didnt use cloak is because of how powerful thermals were. back when you could see through walls with them there was almost always a detective or HoS wearing their thermals at all times. id imagine that the cloak is alot more effective now when the thermals do very little.
Re: Traitor Telecrystal Rework\Buffs - Dr_Bee - 03-04-2015
and of course once again I post without reading the post RIGHT ABOVE ME saying the same thing. anyway. having the cloak not work with an activated C-saber would be a nice way to balance it. so there is a split second and a loud noise before the stun and death vs just death.
Re: Traitor Telecrystal Rework\Buffs - rulib - 03-04-2015
I think shotgun should be lowered to 5 to allow for the crazy weakness of it: it's more conspicuous than a saber and less deadly, plus it's weaker than a taser + melee combo because it doesn't reliably stun. Lower .22 likewise.
Re: Traitor Telecrystal Rework\Buffs - DyssalC - 03-04-2015
rulib Wrote:I think shotgun should be lowered to 5 to allow for the crazy weakness of it: it's more conspicuous than a saber and less deadly, plus it's weaker than a taser + melee combo because it doesn't reliably stun. Lower .22 likewise.What do you mean the shotgun doesn't reliably stun? I have never not been stunned by a Spacker, even in armor, even in CAPTAIN'S armor.
Also, it's not "crazy weak". It tears through unarmored players like hot butter, and armored players like cold butter. Two shots, one ranged, one point-blank, and your target has little to no chance of standing back up.
Was there some nerf that occurred recently that I'm unaware of? Did everything suddenly start doing 50% damage?
Re: Traitor Telecrystal Rework\Buffs - BaneOfGiygas - 03-04-2015
DyssalC Wrote:I did a bunch of tests on syndie weapons a while back to see just exactly how much damage things did. At point-blank range to an unarmored target, the Spacker shotgun did about 110 brute damage per shot. Even from 4 tiles away, the thing does about 60 brute per hit, and seeing how fast you can fire that thing, it's NOT something to be called "crazy weak".rulib Wrote:I think shotgun should be lowered to 5 to allow for the crazy weakness of it: it's more conspicuous than a saber and less deadly, plus it's weaker than a taser + melee combo because it doesn't reliably stun. Lower .22 likewise.What do you mean the shotgun doesn't reliably stun? I have never not been stunned by a Spacker, even in armor, even in CAPTAIN'S armor.
Also, it's not "crazy weak". It tears through unarmored players like hot butter, and armored players like cold butter. Two shots, one ranged, one point-blank, and your target has little to no chance of standing back up.
Was there some nerf that occurred recently that I'm unaware of? Did everything suddenly start doing 50% damage?
Re: Traitor Telecrystal Rework\Buffs - Grayshift - 03-04-2015
I had a more radical idea on revamping telecrystal costs. Rather than one big pool of 10-12 telecrystals, divide them into tiers. You get two major telecrystals, two moderate telecrystal picks, and three minor picks.
MAJOR (Two picks)
Butcher's Knife (costs 2)
Cyalume Saber (costs 2)
Red Chainsaw (costs 2)
Shotgun (costs 2)
Revolver
Emag
Sleepy Pen
Cloaking Device
Deluxe Mind-Slave Implant
Bowling Kit
Mining Charge Hacker
Power Gloves
Wrasslebelt
Safari Kit
Teleport Gun
Shatter (gain 2 moderate crystals)
MODERATE (Two picks)
Mindslave Implant (costs 2)
Radbow (costs 2)
Syndicate Donk Pockets
Cloaking Field Device
Syndicate Pipe Bomb
Stimulants
Power Sink
Amplified Vuvuzela
Signal Jammer
Derringer
Syndicate Device Scanner
Cleaner Grenades
Trash Compactor
Syringe Gun
.22
Clown Car
Chameleon Bomb
Shatter (gain 2 minor crystals)
MINOR (Three picks)
Detomatrix Cart (Costs 2)
Sonic Grenades (Costs 2)
Chemistry Grenades (Costs 2)
Jug of Moonshine (Costs 2)
Chemicompiler (Costs 2)
Tactical Grenades (Costs 2)
.38 AP Speedloader (Costs 2)
Emp Grenades
Fake Moustache
Trick Cigarettes
Chameleon Suit
Stealth Storage
Freedom Implant
Agent Card
Voice Changer
Chameleon Projector
Syndicate Robot Frame
Syndicate Sauce
ID Tracker
Floor Closet
Syndicate Cargo Transporter
Moustache Grenade
Poison Bottle
DNA Scrambler
Trick Revolver
O.C. Bible
Mailman Suit
Finally, two special options.
Surplus crate (2 major picks, 3 moderate picks, 4 minor picks at random, and stuff that costs 2 normally only costs 1)
Microbomb (converts all remaining telecrystals into a microbomb implant, power depending on crystals unspent)
I think this would see those lesser-used items gain more prominence since you wouldn't be wasting points toward a major purchase anymore. Some tweaking will be required! I'm particularly leery of that surplus crate discount clause, the more I look at it the more of a bad idea it seems to be.
Re: Traitor Telecrystal Rework\Buffs - Roomba - 03-04-2015
That seems a bit too artificially limiting, I think I'd prefer sticking to the old system. It encourages more reliance on the big-ticket items to base a build around and that generally results in 'rampage weapon + some other support stuff'. Sometimes a dude just wants to buy all the sonic grenades they can and run around deafening the station, you know? I think it limits creativity more than it encourages it.
Also you wouldn't be able to make ten maneaters which is an outrage.
Re: Traitor Telecrystal Rework\Buffs - Roomba - 03-04-2015
Okay, looked at the 'shatter' thing and I guess the proposed system still allows for it. I still think it's too artificially limiting, though.
Re: Traitor Telecrystal Rework\Buffs - Ed Venture - 03-05-2015
Dr_Bee Wrote:part of the reason people didnt use cloak is because of how powerful thermals were. back when you could see through walls with them there was almost always a detective or HoS wearing their thermals at all times. id imagine that the cloak is alot more effective now when the thermals do very little.
I was talking about both of those items in that post when both of them were nerf, and I saw alot of people use the cloak back in the day when neither one were nerfed.
Re: Traitor Telecrystal Rework\Buffs - Ed Venture - 03-05-2015
Ed Venture.[/quote Wrote:both of them were not nerfed
Sorry for the double post
Re: Traitor Telecrystal Rework\Buffs - Marquesas - 03-05-2015
Things I am completely opposed to:
- Grayshift: Two picks in 'major'. Far too powerful.
- Pacra: The cloaking device in general. It's not fun for anyone. While the cloak has been nerfed hard, it still gives you the opportunity to strike first with an esword undetected, which is basically a death sentence.
- In general: Cheap emags. The swiss army knife. It does literally everything yet its value keeps floating at 'basically free'.
Re: Traitor Telecrystal Rework\Buffs - Dr_Bee - 03-05-2015
maybe make the cloaking device an exosuit slot item with a limited time for the cloak and an obvious sprite. plus maybe give it a weakness to tazers like the chameleon jumpsuit has a weakness to EMPs. so basically it would act sort of like the vampire's phase shift power in that it isnt really for attacking but more for quick getaways and evasion. first striking while cloaked would still be a thing but you would need to be sure that your victim was along or else you would be extremely vulnerable, so basically like a changeling acid spit in effectiveness.