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+--- Thread: Improving Gang Mode (/showthread.php?tid=4244)
Re: Improving Gang Mode - Frank_Stein - 02-23-2015
Carlarc Wrote:All of these suggestions are pretty much awesome, but we never do play gang, do we?Yeah, I would love to see Gangs in other rounds. Ideally they would be somewhere in between miscreants and traitors on the threat level.
How about giving it a small chance to be on blob rounds, as to make them a bit longer when the blob gets inmediately called out. (no, not blob gangs)
Re: Improving Gang Mode - atomic1fire - 02-23-2015
Add two or more gang leaders to mixed along with other roles.
It be p funny for gangs to take up causes other then kill each other, like get dat wizard and steal his hat, or delimb the ling.
Mobs gonna form, might as well let them go crazy go nuts with sufficient motivation and in game purpose.
I feel like crime, and not just bash a couple people on the head crime, would go way up if there were two or more gang leaders running around during a multi tator, wizard, or ling round.
Security would probably hate it, but it would give grey shirts/griffs/jerks something to do that isn't harass sec because gang pride.
Also imagine wizard inspiring a criminal mob because he fireballed gang territory and set their uniforms on fire. Or a gang being inspired to enforce mandatory ling tests because the ling got one of their own.
Sure there's a risk of gang being introduced to mixed making things too cluttered, but people generally gravitate towards grief with larger numbers of players anyway, might as well make that part of the round by letting them focus their damage on each other.
Re: Improving Gang Mode - BruiseCruise - 02-23-2015
69andahalf Wrote:As for buying stuff of the black market, it might be cool if the gang leader can designate an area their main gang territory. The larger the area/more secure area the more gang members it takes to make their main area(gang members actually have to be there and it still takes time to claim). The gang leader's PDA should have the ability to teleport in some type of black-market computer, like QM has and send it away so security can't steal it. When they order something it's teleported to a random tile in their main gang territory.
(also give the gang leader the ability to staple their PDA to their hand, it can never be lost again!)
Quality staple idea! or have it tattooed to the leader's bicep for MAXIMUM CRED. Seriously though, I like the PDA idea. That would take care of shipping items and buying Black Market items, plus the cartridges allow many people to use 'em which is good in case the leader is cooling his/her heels in the brig. As for gang turf..... My concern was that designating it might be a bit troublesome and irritating, especially in Mixed Mode. What I DID think, however, was this: why not be able to buy special gang items from the Black Market that act as 'turf' markers and barricades? For example, you could buy a beaten-up low rider and plop it in front of a door, or buy a ratty mattress and use it as a ghetto sleeper. Maybe a pile of graffiti'd crates? This would accomplish two things: first, it would be a clear sign that gangs are about! Second, this could tie in to the gameplay and allow strategy along with creativity. Maybe you could buy a huge stereo that, while it only works as a barricade, also generates more Street Cred for your gang. I feel like Spriters could get pretty creative with this kind of stuff; just a bunch of crap that Gangs might find cool even if other people don't. Of course, all of this clutter should be destructible. That way the destroyer, if a gang member, gets a little Street Cred boost AND it hinders, but doesn't stop, all attempts to break into gang turf.
Re: Improving Gang Mode - pizzatiger - 02-23-2015
What if the blackmarket was run by a player with the goal to earn a certain amount of cash? His PDA is encryped with a dna-locked app and he has a mini-bank account attached to it. Now there is also a tiny twist which would turn this into a full-fledge bluffing game-
The gangs can give him fake cash[/b
(All numbers here are examples and are not balanced at all) A gang could buy 1000 credits cash with street cred for 10 Scred's(Street creed) but if they are feeling like they can out-bluff the shop-keeper they can buy 1000 fake credits for 5 Scred's which they can try to pass off to the dealer as real money. If the dealer accepts it The gang gets 15 Scred's and you can get what you bought from the dealer(He will never find out if he been scammed or not), If they are caught (i explain how they can get caught further later) they lose 20 Scred's
Now i bet your wondering how this works for the dealer, well let me explain
[b]Dealer Gameplay
As i stated before the Dealer will get an special Pda that only he can use,This Pda Has an Bank option where can look how close he is to his goal, A shop filled with various drugs, Items and most importantly....WEAPONS but he can't buy it by himself, he needs to have a gang-member willingly give his DNA (So the Screds can be scored according to gang)
He can also insert cash into his which can be sent to his bank but it gives you a prompt on if you want to scan the money to see if it is fake. The problem is if the money is real the dealer will get a HUGE FINE (he can still buy items in negative but it takes him away from his goal) and the gang gets 10 Scred's. Now if the money is fake the gang will be punished and you get an large bonus in cash and the gang loses Scred.
Hmmm i think i'm missing something, oh wait..could it be....
Bribes
A bribe is an voucher a gang can buy for 1 street cred that will give the dealer a random amount of money when redemed but is also a trusty-worthy source of income for the dealer. A gang can give the dealer a bribe to let their cash go unchecked (Double bluff him to get him to check you clean money), To give you a small discount on his goods, or to check another gang money to see if it's fake
What do you guys think?
Re: Improving Gang Mode - 69andahalf - 02-23-2015
The biggest issue with making a single player the go-between for what could be multiple gangs, is that they could easily be killed by anyone, gang members, security, random crew members. What happens when they are are killed? Is another selected, or does the black market become inaccessible? It would certainly become an incentive for the gang members to keep them alive, but it could easily be abused through metagaming.
The idea of fake money is cool though, especially if the gang could produce it themselves through printing presses that the leader can put down. The initial one is free but you could be able to buy more from the black-market (for quite a lot of money of course), which would be able to allow the gang to tier up production and afford better gear. Much like how wraith absorbs dead people to get faster production of wraith-points so they can use their high-tier abilities easier. Money would be held in money bags (produced through fabrication of course) which can hold only x-amount so you might need a lot of gang members going to the contact to cash-in all the money.
I'd also be cool of the gang could set up some kind of gang-related work-bench/fabricator which could make cool hats (for the street-cred) and better uniforms. All of these add to their street-cred but they also take more expensive stuff, possible mined or possibly gotten off the black market.
Re: Improving Gang Mode - BruiseCruise - 02-23-2015
pizzatiger Wrote:What do you guys think?
Gonna agree with 69 on this one. It's not a bad idea, but it relies a lot on many different variables which might make it a bit complex during a normal round of SS13. There's also nothing stopping people from kidnapping the dealer or the dealer himself from grabbing some Gang DNA and grabbing all of those neat little toys for himself. I might be misreading a lot of the idea, but my point here is that while another player role would be nice, it's a lot of work for someone who can easily be replaced by, say, a Trader akin to the ones QMs deal with on their terminal.
As for the fabricator, maybe it could be ordered from the PDA Black Market? Make it look like some sort of scummy meth lab setup or something.
Re: Improving Gang Mode - Frank_Stein - 02-23-2015
BruiseCruise Wrote:Yeah, that's definitely how it should be handled. Turf is just whatever area the gang wants to congregate in and stash all their gear and junk where they think they can protect it. I like the idea of gang gear like the boom boxes or trashcan fires that generate cred while they are deployed. Some other things could be stuff like meth and coke labs. They could work like the icecream machine, where any reagent you stick in produces a drug with that reagent fused into it, but only gang members know how to use the labs. You can shout at junkies about why your product is superior. Then you can sell that stuff to the crew and the Black market.69andahalf Wrote:As for buying stuff of the black market, it might be cool if the gang leader can designate an area their main gang territory. The larger the area/more secure area the more gang members it takes to make their main area(gang members actually have to be there and it still takes time to claim). The gang leader's PDA should have the ability to teleport in some type of black-market computer, like QM has and send it away so security can't steal it. When they order something it's teleported to a random tile in their main gang territory.
(also give the gang leader the ability to staple their PDA to their hand, it can never be lost again!)
Quality staple idea! or have it tattooed to the leader's bicep for MAXIMUM CRED. Seriously though, I like the PDA idea. That would take care of shipping items and buying Black Market items, plus the cartridges allow many people to use 'em which is good in case the leader is cooling his/her heels in the brig. As for gang turf..... My concern was that designating it might be a bit troublesome and irritating, especially in Mixed Mode. What I DID think, however, was this: why not be able to buy special gang items from the Black Market that act as 'turf' markers and barricades? For example, you could buy a beaten-up low rider and plop it in front of a door, or buy a ratty mattress and use it as a ghetto sleeper. Maybe a pile of graffiti'd crates? This would accomplish two things: first, it would be a clear sign that gangs are about! Second, this could tie in to the gameplay and allow strategy along with creativity. Maybe you could buy a huge stereo that, while it only works as a barricade, also generates more Street Cred for your gang. I feel like Spriters could get pretty creative with this kind of stuff; just a bunch of crap that Gangs might find cool even if other people don't. Of course, all of this clutter should be destructible. That way the destroyer, if a gang member, gets a little Street Cred boost AND it hinders, but doesn't stop, all attempts to break into gang turf.
Re: Improving Gang Mode - pizzatiger - 02-24-2015
69andahalf Wrote:The biggest issue with making a single player the go-between for what could be multiple gangs, is that they could easily be killed by anyone, gang members, security, random crew members. What happens when they are are killed? Is another selected, or does the black market become inaccessible? It would certainly become an incentive for the gang members to keep them alive, but it could easily be abused through metagaming.
The idea of fake money is cool though, especially if the gang could produce it themselves through printing presses that the leader can put down. The initial one is free but you could be able to buy more from the black-market (for quite a lot of money of course), which would be able to allow the gang to tier up production and afford better gear. Much like how wraith absorbs dead people to get faster production of wraith-points so they can use their high-tier abilities easier. Money would be held in money bags (produced through fabrication of course) which can hold only x-amount so you might need a lot of gang members going to the contact to cash-in all the money.
I'd also be cool of the gang could set up some kind of gang-related work-bench/fabricator which could make cool hats (for the street-cred) and better uniforms. All of these add to their street-cred but they also take more expensive stuff, possible mined or possibly gotten off the black market.
What if If the black-market dealer dies or if he loses his PDA for a certain amount of time a PDA update will go to the gang leaders so they can buy their own items but They can't use fake cash and everything is worth twice as much.
Dealer being a jerk and selling to the other gang only? Kill him and not only gain access to the shop but force the other gang to lose their discount, OR play sneaky and give him a bunch of bribes to deal only with you so you get the sweet discounts without the loser gangs from gaining what you need
Re: Improving Gang Mode - BruiseCruise - 02-24-2015
pizzatiger Wrote:What if If the black-market dealer dies or if he loses his PDA for a certain amount of time a PDA update will go to the gang leaders so they can buy their own items but They can't use fake cash and everything is worth twice as much. Dealer being a jerk and selling to the other gang only? Kill him and not only gain access to the shop but force the other gang to lose their discount, OR play sneaky and give him a bunch of bribes to deal only with you so you get the sweet discounts without the loser gangs from gaining what you need
I dunno, it still seems unnecessarily complex to me. Imagine if in Traitor Rounds instead of ordering gear from your PDA you had to go through another crewmember (identity unknown), provide your own telecrystals and had to haggle instead of using set prices all while avoiding batshit security and vigilantes who will robust you the minute they see something suspicious? That's how this whole Dealer thing seems to me. Also why would killing the Dealer result in fake money not working anymore? How, if at all, does Street Cred work into the system? Is it still needed? Once again, what's stopping a gang from kidnapping the guy and forcing him into lousy deals? What's stopping the dealer from killing Gang Members, taking DNA/Fake Cash, and buying toys for himself to robust the station? Is the Dealer a traitor? How does Security handle him?
It's less of an issue of how the Dealer could work and more an issue of why. Seems like a lot of hoops to jump through for something that could be mitigated by a PDA Market in the form of a special chip. Not to mention if Street Cred and Fake Cash are put in, it also begs the question of what currency does what and why. It's also important to remember that if Gang takes place in Mixed, you'd have a Gang Leader, a Dealer, and possibly several other traitors which would probably make it too complex. It puts a lot of pressure on one player and it seems like a lot of it could be replaced by a sufficient roleplayer. Then again, this is just me talking. I'm sure someone could make a better case than I can in favor of the Dealer, but right now it just seems a bit too clunky, especially when we haven't fully fleshed-out what exactly we want from Gang Mode itself.
Back to Drug Labs and stuff: heck yea. We all know how much spacemen love their space drugs. Sounds like a gateway to other nasty business too such as illegal boxing matches and bootlegging. Considering how ghetto they are, though, maybe some labs could be highly flammable or explosive? That would make it more important to A) Hide your workshops and B) Protect the hell outta them.
Re: Improving Gang Mode - pizzatiger - 02-24-2015
BruiseCruise Wrote:pizzatiger Wrote:What do you guys think?
Gonna agree with 69 on this one. It's not a bad idea, but it relies a lot on many different variables which might make it a bit complex during a normal round of SS13. There's also nothing stopping people from kidnapping the dealer or the dealer himself from grabbing some Gang DNA and grabbing all of those neat little toys for himself. I might be misreading a lot of the idea, but my point here is that while another player role would be nice, it's a lot of work for someone who can easily be replaced by, say, a Trader akin to the ones QMs deal with on their terminal.
The Pda will not work with anyone but the dealer, trying to open up the interface as the wrong person (polymorph won't help) will cause it to beep/sass at you meaning it's basicly restricted to the dealer which allows him to decide who win or loses (Side effects might include : Losing gangs ratting you out to security, Losing gangs beating you up to gang access to the shop, Winning gang offing you after they get what they want from you stopping you from selling to other people). I feel this makes the buying weapons and useful illegal items more unique and fun instead of buying something with a pda for your gang (If the gangs don't want to mess with this they can easly stick to lasers stolen from Qm)
Now the how to balance the dealer from going on a rampage on a rampage with his toys or refusing to sell anything is an enougher thing.The way i see it you can do this:
All gang leaders will learn who the dealer is at the start of the game and the Dealer isn't an Atang and isn't allowed to kill non-security members (only when security trying to arrest them) unless it's self defense.
Also the gangs can kill the Dealer if he isn't selling to any of them to give all the leaders acess to the blackmarket from their pda
Re: Improving Gang Mode - Frank_Stein - 02-24-2015
Yeah, I think the dealer being an actual player makes it a bit too complex and sets up a lot of variables for things to fall apart. Gang members could probably buy shit off the Black Market and act as a dealer to the other crew and traitors though? Throw some common items on there that miners, chemists, or doctors might want at drastically lower prices than QM offers (It's all stolen, anyway)
Re: Improving Gang Mode - BruiseCruise - 02-24-2015
Frank_Stein Wrote:Yeah, I think the dealer being an actual player makes it a bit too complex and sets up a lot of variables for things to fall apart. Gang members could probably buy shit off the Black Market and act as a dealer to the other crew and traitors though? Throw some common items on there that miners, chemists, or doctors might want at drastically lower prices than QM offers (It's all stolen, anyway)
Yea, I like this because it feels like a Gang thing to do. Gives the station a reason to kinda 'cooperate' with the Gangs too, if they desire, while also increasing the possibility of Gang Rivalry through 'better deals' and Roleplay (ex. The Dirty Hats offer Space Weed for 20 Space Bucks each, but The Rubber Chickens will also throw in a Laser Gun for every ten leaves purchased! WOW!). Extremely rough example, but you get my point. That way it's up to the Gangs to set prices and liason with the crew if they so desire, or they can just horde the stuff for themselves and live fast, die young. Some gangs might want to forego dealing with the crew and rule the station with an iron fist. Other gangs may take a more diplomatic role, especially in rounds with other Traitors. It would also force Traitors to deal with gangs first either by eliminating or subverting them (imagine a Changeling Gang Leader, for example).
Re: Improving Gang Mode - pizzatiger - 02-24-2015
Ehh, i mostly stole the Dealer idea from sheriff of nottingham, which is a bluffing base board game. I subsituted the traders for the gang and the sheriff for the Dealer and i changed how some of the mechanics work because i saw a way (in my own eyes) to make Gang more then "Deathmatch 5.0" the gamemode.
Game i stole my ideas from
Re: Improving Gang Mode - BruiseCruise - 02-24-2015
pizzatiger Wrote:Ehh, i mostly stole the Dealer idea from sheriff of nottingham, which is a bluffing base board game. I subsituted the traders for the gang and the sheriff for the Dealer and i changed how some of the mechanics work because i saw a way (in my own eyes) to make Gang more then "Deathmatch 5.0" the gamemode.
With the addition of Street Cred and the ability to humiliate and/or outperform other gangs, hopefully we can subvert the old Deathmatch 5.0 schpiel. If there are alternate methods to winning a gang war (brigging their leader, humiliating them, vandalizing their gear, recruiting their gang members, etc) then players will use them. With the right setup and players, Gangs can either go full Mad Max on everyone or they can be a bunch of lovable miscreants that end up saving the station (especially in Mixed mode). Violence is going to happen no matter what, which should be expected when you have a game mode about Gang Members. The key isn't to completely subvert that violence, but to offer alternatives. It's entirely possibly to play a stealthy Traitor and Changeling (in some cases a Wizard, but that's usually frowned upon), so I think it's possible to play semi-benevolent/pacifistic Gangs too if Street Cred and/or embarrassment are factored in.
Re: Improving Gang Mode - atomic1fire - 02-24-2015
For a balancing act, what if gangs could have heat.
Sorta like Christmas karma, gangs could have heat rise when a lot of people are dying willy nilly.
Heat makes smuggling harder (which means they can't buy and sell guns and drugs from arms dealers, or the prices go up on items)
Heat naturally goes down within a few minutes if the general rate of death goes down, or maybe if certain actions are performed.
Having an extremely high level of heat will cause any securitron in the area to arrest known gang members, mostly because this would be hilarious and secondly it would give the crew a way to limit full on violence.