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+--- Thread: Make stuns/lying down no longer drop weapons (/showthread.php?tid=24838)
RE: Make stuns/lying down no longer drop weapons - RSOD - 01-16-2026
the prospect of differentiating stuns and disarms is a very intriguing one, and i'm very keen on giving this a shot since i believe it would make fighting a lot less frustrating when your Cool Big Weapon doesn't get yanked by the chairflipping staffie because you didn't notice them standing on a folding chair
so yeah, i'm all for this and maybe there could be a testmerge to see what others think of it
RE: Make stuns/lying down no longer drop weapons - Agent reburG - 01-16-2026
Holy, just realized...
... Does this mean that self surgeries would no longer require you to lie down, just to start getting up again and standing on the table?
Because that always felt silly.
Yes, I might be too unrobust to speak for myself so I won't mouth for anyone else concerning combat, but in general just mechanically speaking, this is an upgrade.
Anyone else that can think of a job that might unexpectedly profits (even if it's just a margin) from this change?
RE: Make stuns/lying down no longer drop weapons - Vulwin_Gilran - 01-16-2026
Please no. Don't ruin this for all the clowns out there. Do you KNOW how many funny goofs happen from clowns slipping people and stealing what they are holding? Nearly every single shift where I have been a clown I have done some kind of gimmick around slipping people and dragging them around on a chase since I stole something off of them. I think that for such a broad suggestion it should really really be considered how much of the game this would impact. Clowns around the station will weep.
edited this part, honestly an excessive exaggeration but i still think i would be sad seeing this small part of clowning vanish.
Also echoing the point that while this makes antags able to hold onto their gear easier, it also makes sec able to hold onto their gear easier which means no more swiping batons off of tripped secoffs for easy wins. Also, if you dont want to drop your cool traitor weapon we already have something for that, its called attaching it as an arm which already has balanced downsides and benefits.
Specific instance of how this massively nerfs an antag, arcfiends. Their main combat strategy is to knock their enemy off of their feet which disarms them, then scoop up the weapon and use it. Even nerfs vampires frost bats since one of the main benefits of it was that flings and disarms people.
I am not sure how I feel about this proposed change, I think a test merge would be pretty valuable to see how it actually effects sec antag interactions.
RE: Make stuns/lying down no longer drop weapons - Lord_earthfire - 01-17-2026
Personally, i am not a fan if that idea. Disarming via stuns is one of the main way sleepers and salvagers are able to combat security.
The most common situation is you, as antag, being outnumbered against people with better weaponry. The only exception is traitor getting a big ticket item like a c-saber. And even that is debatable with stun batons requiring equal hits to down somone.
Personaly, i see this idea fully missing it's intended effect. Stun weapons already got no counters besides "don't get hit", stun-disarm or emp. Throwing one of them under the bus is not a good idea in my book.
RE: Make stuns/lying down no longer drop weapons - Agent reburG - 01-17-2026
(01-17-2026, 12:30 AM)Lord_earthfire Wrote: Personally, i am not a fan if that idea. Disarming via stuns is one of the main way sleepers and salvagers are able to combat security.
The most common situation is you, as antag, being outnumbered against people with better weaponry. The only exception is traitor getting a big ticket item like a c-saber. And even that is debatable with stun batons requiring equal hits to down somone.
Personaly, i see this idea fully missing it's intended effect. Stun weapons already got no counters besides "don't get hit", stun-disarm or emp. Throwing one of them under the bus is not a good idea in my book.
Security isn't supposed to be just countered, it's the thingy to prevent to go rampaging and reconsider how they approach things, for example should I really engage combat when I'm numerical outnumbered?
Funnily you mentioned the one Antagonist-Role that tends to almost outnumber Security by default, has access to quite a lot fire power, but also massively profits from just not fighting security.
Salvagers pulling a heist is definitely better than a massacre.
And Sleepers?
Literally supposed to be the most difficult Antagonist-Role, so you can't really say that they have to be able to reliably/easily go toe to toe with security, just because they got their hands on a defi and steal the rookies wielded baton/taser.
The roles aren't thrown under the bus, but using stuns aggressively to kill sec and "win" maybe is.
Again, there definitely would be need some rebalances, but nothing that shouldn't work.
RE: Make stuns/lying down no longer drop weapons - Lord_earthfire - 01-17-2026
(01-17-2026, 02:08 AM)Agent reburG Wrote: Security isn't supposed to be just countered, it's the thingy to prevent to go rampaging and reconsider how they approach things, for example should I really engage combat when I'm numerical outnumbered?
Tell that the security on RP. They are so bored they swarm onto any form of crime with 3+ ppl.
And that's the thing. You are always outnumbered. Disarms offer you a way to temporary decrease the number of assailants.
RE: Make stuns/lying down no longer drop weapons - Chasu - 01-17-2026
(01-16-2026, 08:17 PM)Vulwin_Gilran Wrote: Specific instance of how this massively nerfs an antag, arcfiends. Their main combat strategy is to knock their enemy off of their feet which disarms them, then scoop up the weapon and use it. Even nerfs vampires frost bats since one of the main benefits of it was that flings and disarms people.
I am not sure how I feel about this proposed change, I think a test merge would be pretty valuable to see how it actually effects sec antag interactions.
Good point on the antags. As mentioned, this change would uproot pretty much all of stun combat balance. Arcfiend, vamp, and clown abilities will definitely need to je changed as well. Slipping, though, should be made exempt from this, for comedic effect.
(01-17-2026, 12:30 AM)Lord_earthfire Wrote: Personally, i am not a fan if that idea. Disarming via stuns is one of the main way sleepers and salvagers are able to combat security.
Sleepers and salvagers have lethal gear. Could buff the knockout chance of those. Maybe even... consider limb stuns to allow for targeting the arms to make your enemy drop their weapon
RE: Make stuns/lying down no longer drop weapons - Lord_earthfire - 01-17-2026
(01-17-2026, 04:33 AM)Chasu Wrote: Maybe even... consider limb stuns to allow for targeting the arms to make your enemy drop their weapon
That PR was never merged. With that, we could be talking, since we could make chems make people drop their weapons still. Of course, we can always add scratching and dropping weapons for capsaicin, i guess.
RE: Make stuns/lying down no longer drop weapons - JORJ949 - 01-19-2026
While I like the thought and would be willing to try it, this would only help Traitors and Security, while antags like Vampires or even Sleepers with banana peels can't take advantage of security holding their weapon just a bit too long. I on several attempts have baited the HoS into clownshotting me only to peel them and device analyzer the lawbringer that got dropped on the floor.
Maybe could be a traitor item for a TC or 2 that's like one of those wii remote wristbands that you can attach to any item. I also don't think you should be able to use the items while floored, but just that you don't drop it so long stuns like security is still punishing (as its your lose-condition in most cases). If you let people keep using weapons while stunned on the floor, security will be forced to just kill the csaber user because they cant approach to cuff, whereas it just being in your hand nerfs these 1 second stuns thats only followup is grabbing the targets weapon, like defibs and chairflips.
RE: Make stuns/lying down no longer drop weapons - Skotcher - 01-19-2026
I'm a big fan of the proposed idea and would like to try it out.
A lot of my own thoughts have already been expressed in the thread, so let me add a different perspective. I feel like Goon's combat system actively discourages me from getting better at it. Why? Because in its current implementation, the combat offers too many routes and too many incentives to fight fast and fight dirty so you end the fight as quickly as possible.
As a secoff, it doesn't feel rewarding to catch an antag because I happened to hit them with a taser shot once, they drop their big weapon, and then I, or someone around me, immediately puts that weapon into a bag. On the reverse side of things, it doesn't feel rewarding as an antag to best security because I happened to make them drop their gear by (for example) getting a single shove in, so now I have their stun gear. The most frustrating thing of all is being in a tense RP situation where a secoff and antag are in a tense standoff, both with weapons drawn, and then Staffie McStafferson waltzes in with a folding chair while one of them is typing, and in 0.2 seconds, chair dives on someone to make them drop their weapon.
So what about this discourages me from getting better at it? It's that it requires practice, and getting in practice and getting better at the combat means fast shut downs. I don't want to get good at the combat if getting good at the combat means ending fights in the blink of an eye. Winning/losing fights doesn't feel fun for me if it happened because someone got stunned/knocked over and now the fight is done.
I don't think using weapons while laying down is the best idea, but not dropping your weapon and being able to stash it would go a long way towards making fights feel more impactful. Antags can no longer steal security's batons/tasers easily, but in turn, they can no longer steal the antags Spes/CSabre easily. If one side wants to make a tactical retreat and happens to slip for 1 second, they are no longer at risk of losing their gear. And I think it will make for more rewarding fights. And hopefully, it will curtail situations where some random person walks up in the middle of a conflict and decides that playing hero/villain is super cool. Especially defib borgs. I loathe having a borg with a speed module come and defib someone for the sole purpose of taking their weapon because it caused the person to fall over for 0.5 seconds.
RE: Make stuns/lying down no longer drop weapons - Silent Majority - 01-19-2026
(01-16-2026, 08:11 AM)LeahTheTech Wrote: I'm not totally against trying this, but I would want to make sure we avoid the weird TG style combat where it ends up with robust players just flopping over and sliding at their opponent to avoid being knocked down because that looks so silly.
Could also just make it so you can't use weapons on the floor. Considering roach skitter, i think this would be a must.
RE: Make stuns/lying down no longer drop weapons - Frank_Stein - 01-19-2026
(01-19-2026, 04:39 PM)Silent Majority Wrote:(01-16-2026, 08:11 AM)LeahTheTech Wrote: I'm not totally against trying this, but I would want to make sure we avoid the weird TG style combat where it ends up with robust players just flopping over and sliding at their opponent to avoid being knocked down because that looks so silly.
Could also just make it so you can't use weapons on the floor. Considering roach skitter, i think this would be a must.
I feel like it would make sense to apply speed penalties on crawling while holding items. Maybe it progressively scales with how many hands are occupied as well as one handed vs two handed items?
RE: Make stuns/lying down no longer drop weapons - GARGATHUGANOKSREVENG - 01-19-2026
(01-19-2026, 05:00 PM)Frank_Stein Wrote: I feel like it would make sense to apply speed penalties on crawling while holding items. Maybe it progressively scales with how many hands are occupied as well as one handed vs two handed items?
you already crawl at like the speed of a snail while on the ground
RE: Make stuns/lying down no longer drop weapons - tamakona - 01-19-2026
combat knockdowns should probably still disarm people, but lying down shouldnt. its pretty dumb and just bad QoL.
if we are going to differentiate between knockdowns that disarm and ones that dont, we should probably work on the sheer ubiquity of knockdowns. it's EVERYWHERE. i never know when somethings gonna just take a weapon out of my hand, anything and everything could. at some point, i find myself barely taking out a weapon at all, unless i want to hit someone. in fact usually what i do is have my weapon in a bag, take it out, shoot/stab, and put it back in, repeat. it's pretty dumb, also i feel like the combat being so reliant on action chains kinda suck for higher latency players because the delays stack
RE: Make stuns/lying down no longer drop weapons - Asterion0 - 01-20-2026
Making items unusable (but still held) while on the floor would be really good/probably the easiest way to still make knockdowns punishing without being the outright fight enders they can commonly be, and would be something I'd really want to see if something like this does ever happen.
Alternatively, you could also make it so yellow-handing someone who's lying down has a (maybe only close to) 100% disarm chance, so stuff like defib microstuns and chairflips wouldn't give you enough time to disarm someone UNLESS you outnumber a person and are organized enough to take advantage of it. Still punishing to be laying down/stunned, but requires an intentional follow up from someone while also keeps slips as potential disarm tools for clowns/botany/janitors due to it