(04-05-2023, 10:37 AM)DummySian Wrote:

(04-05-2023, 09:31 AM)Kotlol Wrote:

(04-05-2023, 09:02 AM)Frolicsome Flufficorn Wrote:

(04-05-2023, 08:50 AM)Kotlol Wrote: Eitherway... new players being commanders is fine. People just need to learn to hit the F3 or F1 button more often in these situations (Preferable Mentor help)

Good argument. Lets also allow HoS to be played by new players. If they need to learn they can just F3 or F1 for help??? I mean its the same concept isnt it? (Yes I know the key differences is the amount of rounds that it affects like how HoS can potentially be every round and Nukie commander is only every Nukie round) but in terms of Power ability within the group be it sec of Nukies the commander has huge power to change how the Nukie round goes. Examples; Playing music which can give away the Nukies without even debating it with the rest of the nukies, Can use their uplink to call nuke which if they are new Ive seen a extreme amount of them not save the nuke from being taken away to the crusher despite having the nuke teleport. And they literally have the ability on high pop to force the entire team to deploy via fast deploy. So suggesting that new players have the ability of a high rank role is fine if your prepared to suggest that Using that logic HoS should be open to the public.

The difference is actualyl much simpler. HoS and Captain have high capacities of GRIEF.

While any head can "Rogue the AI for shits" The Captain has several things that can make rounds unfair for players if they side with antags.

HoS is even easier. Lawbringer = explosives.

But Nukie Commanders causing grief? That's fine since they are an antagonist. They are suppose to cause grief to have the station oppose to.

(Though captain being locked behind 20 rounds is still an odd one to me to this day...As HoP's can just make a captain's access ID and do as much damage as caps can do. If not more.)

Anyhow... how about gang leaders? Rev leaders? Salvager Commanders? Should they get the same treatment?

Why are you comparing hos and captain with nukie commander in terms of damaging the station and not their own team?
It has been said many times how commander can just ruin whatever their team was doing by using uplink items (or not even doing anything, like in situation where nuke gets stolen) or other stuff like announcements and music.

(04-05-2023, 10:58 AM)According_tome Wrote:

(04-05-2023, 10:37 AM)DummySian Wrote:

(04-05-2023, 09:31 AM)Kotlol Wrote:

(04-05-2023, 09:02 AM)Frolicsome Flufficorn Wrote:

(04-05-2023, 08:50 AM)Kotlol Wrote: Eitherway... new players being commanders is fine. People just need to learn to hit the F3 or F1 button more often in these situations (Preferable Mentor help)

Good argument. Lets also allow HoS to be played by new players. If they need to learn they can just F3 or F1 for help??? I mean its the same concept isnt it? (Yes I know the key differences is the amount of rounds that it affects like how HoS can potentially be every round and Nukie commander is only every Nukie round) but in terms of Power ability within the group be it sec of Nukies the commander has huge power to change how the Nukie round goes. Examples; Playing music which can give away the Nukies without even debating it with the rest of the nukies, Can use their uplink to call nuke which if they are new Ive seen a extreme amount of them not save the nuke from being taken away to the crusher despite having the nuke teleport. And they literally have the ability on high pop to force the entire team to deploy via fast deploy. So suggesting that new players have the ability of a high rank role is fine if your prepared to suggest that Using that logic HoS should be open to the public.

The difference is actualyl much simpler. HoS and Captain have high capacities of GRIEF.

While any head can "Rogue the AI for shits" The Captain has several things that can make rounds unfair for players if they side with antags.

HoS is even easier. Lawbringer = explosives.

But Nukie Commanders causing grief? That's fine since they are an antagonist. They are suppose to cause grief to have the station oppose to.

(Though captain being locked behind 20 rounds is still an odd one to me to this day...As HoP's can just make a captain's access ID and do as much damage as caps can do. If not more.)

Anyhow... how about gang leaders? Rev leaders? Salvager Commanders? Should they get the same treatment?

Why are you comparing hos and captain with nukie commander in terms of damaging the station and not their own team?
It has been said many times how commander can just ruin whatever their team was doing by using uplink items (or not even doing anything, like in situation where nuke gets stolen) or other stuff like announcements and music.

Commander can ruin the round they are in indeed so does an lousy infiltrator or scout who reveals himself to overcompetent security does that mean we should lock it behind a winrate as well?
While we are at it why dont we do this stuff to regular roles like I  dont know research director if you dont get 5 green text as scientist you cant play as that or if you dont generate power at certain extent you cant play chief engineer how about that? 
Well if you care so much about teams lets lock entire nukies behind traitors and if you dont do well with your killls and tc then im sorry you cant play as nukies. 
People mess stuff sometimes rounds go stale but sometimes interesting and not allowing new players to play as certain type of antag does nothing but robbing the player from that experience and you entirely stop them from gaining experience from that role.
I also don't get why do you think captain and nukie commander not comparable as both have huge effect on the round. Cap has an egun that can blast people away plus beginners that might not even know the difference between an anagonist round or regular round.
I think we don't need any more special treatment for players who play more competitively or any more special roles in that regard since nobody has more right than anyone to play a certain role just because they are better at game. Hos is sole exception to this and thats more than enough.

I hope I wont see this game turn into a shitty pvp one day.

(04-05-2023, 11:36 AM)Ikea Wrote: The reason why I made this pr isnt to make nukies more robust or whatever (even though I think that's a nice side effect with how much flukies there are). The reason why I made this pr is just because that 99 times out of 100 nukie commanders who have no clue whats going on is just not fun or interesting. Nukies quickly realizing that there commander is useless so they ignore them and do there own thing is much less interesting then commanders who engage with there nukies and come up with a unique plan to win. A commander who actually leads is much more interesting then a commander that just becomes another nukie but in 40k cosplay, and in order to lead you need to have an idea of what's going on.

(04-05-2023, 11:42 AM)Kotlol Wrote:

(04-05-2023, 11:36 AM)Ikea Wrote: The reason why I made this pr isnt to make nukies more robust or whatever (even though I think that's a nice side effect with how much flukies there are). The reason why I made this pr is just because that 99 times out of 100 nukie commanders who have no clue whats going on is just not fun or interesting. Nukies quickly realizing that there commander is useless so they ignore them and do there own thing is much less interesting then commanders who engage with there nukies and come up with a unique plan to win. A commander who actually leads is much more interesting then a commander that just becomes another nukie but in 40k cosplay, and in order to lead you need to have an idea of what's going on.

I see good reasoning, but I say don't allow "Winners" to get advantage.
Since "Winners" don't have to be because they are good... but cause the rest is good or the commander they had was good.
I'd say if you want to avoid NEWBIES to get it.. change it to: "Commander advantage goes to someone who has 5x matches on their match list if they roll for nukies over someone that has a 0 matches."