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+--- Thread: Chemistry needs some changes. (/showthread.php?tid=1810)
Re: Chemistry needs some changes. - Weavel - 11-18-2013
Readster Wrote:There's very little reason to stick to anything once you have X. That's why you don't see pro burns in the engine as much and why QM's don't experiment with buying and selling. Hell, this is why nobody goes into toxins anymore.
I forgot to address this holy shit
how are you even slightly using that as a point for your argument, that's saying "oh well there's not much to do in other places so why chemistry"
it's an ideas/suggestions forum for IMPROVING the game, in every zone; saying "nobody makes super pro burns because it's been done" means there should be more variations to the engine, right? why doesn't that apply to chemistry?
unless I am reading this completely wrong in which case ban me ok
Re: Chemistry needs some changes. - Captain_Bravo - 11-18-2013
Weavel Wrote:- stable foam, heat to expand
Might be wrong, but I think you can do this already? Ice doesn't react with flourosurfectant, right? So you can freeze water, add it to a foam mix, and then heat the beaker to melt the ice and activate the foam?
Also, I haven't played a lot of chemistry because various bullshit things over the last few months means I've only been able to play maybe two dozen rounds in the last 15 weeks, but I was basing the azide bomb thing off what I thought was confirmation from cogwerks that using water/urine to degrade into ammonia and complete the reaction would work. It was a while ago that I suggested it, and I thought he confirmed it would work, but I might have been wrong. Once I get a computer that can run Byond again (Stupid fucking Chrome OS!
) I'll give it a test myself.
Re: Chemistry needs some changes. - Spy_Guy - 11-19-2013
Captain_Bravo Wrote:Weavel Wrote:- stable foam, heat to expand
Might be wrong, but I think you can do this already? Ice doesn't react with flourosurfectant, right? So you can freeze water, add it to a foam mix, and then heat the beaker to melt the ice and activate the foam?
Ice does react with fluorosurfactant.
(and frankly I do not think this is A Bad Thing balance-wise)
Re: Chemistry needs some changes. - Captain_Bravo - 11-19-2013
Looks like I'm 0/2
Re: Chemistry needs some changes. - Marquesas - 11-19-2013
Spy_Guy Wrote:Captain_Bravo Wrote:Weavel Wrote:- stable foam, heat to expand
Might be wrong, but I think you can do this already? Ice doesn't react with flourosurfectant, right? So you can freeze water, add it to a foam mix, and then heat the beaker to melt the ice and activate the foam?
Ice does react with fluorosurfactant.
(and frankly I do not think this is A Bad Thing balance-wise)
I, for one, do not agree, mr. disguised person.
Re: Chemistry needs some changes. - APARTHEID - 11-19-2013
This is a thread where Clarks and Weavel are right about the things they do best: alchemical hijinks.
As it is (or, well, as I've been able to figure out from it), Chemistry is linear as heck: make this, add some of that, get some of these in 1-unit amounts or some of this in rationed amounts to add to foam, smoke, or a spray bottle. That's more or less it, save for the rising popularity of borg patches.
cogwerks has been moving in a direction with different reactions from the manufacture and use of chemicals, such as found in the unprotected production of crank and sarin, but where else does Chemistry really do an interesting thing other than in its weights and measures? Hell, I've been pushing for LIGHT TUBE CHEMISTRY for a while, but it seems to be on the back burner along with all the other Chemistry-related things. Chemistry ought to do more with its reactions and (un)intended consequences. Reagent-flavored ices that have all the slipping properties of foam with propagation of chemical transfer per tick? Reducing the slipperiness of foam to increase its spread? Ice that behaves like ice and not water?
If Clarks or Weavel appear smug, they're not. Apart from (I guess) SailorDave and a few other people, they know what they're talking about.
Re: Chemistry needs some changes. - Skunkrocker - 11-19-2013
Personally, I'd like to see a lot more out of the chemistry department. Many items in the game should be able to be broken down into chemical reagents and those reagents broken further down to base elements, if needed. It was my theory as to how the chem department built explosives out of potato chips and water. As seen below,
Quote:Chip = potato slice, oil, salt.
Salt = sodium, water, chlorine.
Potato slice = ???
Water = hydrogen, oxygen.
Oil = ???, welding fuel?
Since this isn't a possibility I was stumped as well as how they made bombs, but if the ChemMaster could extract reagents like that... imagine the fun chemistry could have then. "OOH! This traitor had special synidcate toxin! Lets see what it's made of!"
Re: Chemistry needs some changes. - Morrigi - 11-20-2013
APARTHEID Wrote:This is a thread where Clarks and Weavel are right about the things they do best: alchemical hijinks.
As it is (or, well, as I've been able to figure out from it), Chemistry is linear as heck: make this, add some of that, get some of these in 1-unit amounts or some of this in rationed amounts to add to foam, smoke, or a spray bottle. That's more or less it, save for the rising popularity of borg patches.
cogwerks has been moving in a direction with different reactions from the manufacture and use of chemicals, such as found in the unprotected production of crank and sarin, but where else does Chemistry really do an interesting thing other than in its weights and measures? Hell, I've been pushing for LIGHT TUBE CHEMISTRY for a while, but it seems to be on the back burner along with all the other Chemistry-related things. Chemistry ought to do more with its reactions and (un)intended consequences. Reagent-flavored ices that have all the slipping properties of foam with propagation of chemical transfer per tick? Reducing the slipperiness of foam to increase its spread? Ice that behaves like ice and not water?
If Clarks or Weavel appear smug, they're not. Apart from (I guess) SailorDave and a few other people, they know what they're talking about.
I agree. Chemistry needs more research options. There should be ways to tweak the various solutions of reagents to create more customized effects. Perhaps some mechanic involving solutions and purity could be added? Chemicals could be processed through distillation, cooling, mixture with catalysts, etc. to result in a more pure product, or one with subtle differences in effect.
Let's take cyanide as an example. In real-world chemistry, there are three well-known cyanide compounds. Hydrogen cyanide is the best-known, as a deadly gas. However, it has some interesting properties. Its boiling point is just under 80 degrees Fahrenheit, and could thus be vaporized and spread into the air by a relatively small application of heat, or a room that's a bit too warm.
Sodium cyanide is produced by treating hydrogen cyanide with sodium hydroxide. Sodium cyanide is a solid at room temperature and its boiling point is nearly three thousand degrees. However, it will rapidly release hydrogen cyanide when exposed to strong acids, and more slowly when exposed to water.
Potassium cyanide is unique as well, and is produced by mixing hydrogen cyanide with a solution of 50% solution of water and potassium hydroxide, before boiling off the solution in a vacuum. Potassium hydroxide is soluble in water.
Consider the following: A particularly devious chemist leaves a beaker of hydrogen cyanide in a potted plant before adding a small amount of pyrosium and leaving. Over time, the solution will heat up and the hydrogen cyanide will boil, filling the room with a deadly, invisible gas. Meanwhile, his less competent colleague accidentally starts a fire in the chemistry lab, with a similar beaker of hydrogen cyanide right in the middle of it. R.I.P.
I'm sure you can imagine what a creative chemist could do with these three closely related chemicals alone, to say nothing of others.
Re: Chemistry needs some changes. - atomic1fire - 11-22-2013
My personal favorite thing to do with pyrosium is self igniting thermite.
splash it on a wall, wait, then walk in.
put it in a bar glass, throw it on the wall so the glass breaks, walk in when the wall sets on fire.
Also I'm sure there are other dangerous chemicals you can mix with pyrosium for good measure, but thermite is mostly for fun.
Re: Chemistry needs some changes. - Marquesas - 11-22-2013
APARTHEID Wrote:This is a thread where Clarks and Weavel are right about the things they do best: alchemical hijinks.
As it is (or, well, as I've been able to figure out from it), Chemistry is linear as heck: make this, add some of that, get some of these in 1-unit amounts or some of this in rationed amounts to add to foam, smoke, or a spray bottle. That's more or less it, save for the rising popularity of borg patches.
cogwerks has been moving in a direction with different reactions from the manufacture and use of chemicals, such as found in the unprotected production of crank and sarin, but where else does Chemistry really do an interesting thing other than in its weights and measures? Hell, I've been pushing for LIGHT TUBE CHEMISTRY for a while, but it seems to be on the back burner along with all the other Chemistry-related things. Chemistry ought to do more with its reactions and (un)intended consequences. Reagent-flavored ices that have all the slipping properties of foam with propagation of chemical transfer per tick? Reducing the slipperiness of foam to increase its spread? Ice that behaves like ice and not water?
If Clarks or Weavel appear smug, they're not. Apart from (I guess) SailorDave and a few other people, they know what they're talking about.
Clarks and Weavel are overreacting, and when is Clarks not smug. There are some problems with chemistry, yes, but nothing that explains a complete rewrite, just adjustments to individual chemicals and the introduction of some more interesting effects.
Also, since when does ice work like that, I'm sure if you slip on, or heck even lay down naked on frozen beer IRL, you won't get instantly drunk, although you might smell like a bum after a while.
Re: Chemistry needs some changes. - Marquesas - 11-22-2013
Tell you what, if anyone comes up with an interesting (not overpowered, not pointless eye candy) effect below this post, I'll code it and give it to someone to port it.
Re: Chemistry needs some changes. - mozi - 11-22-2013
marq back in action!!!
his avatar is perfect cause now I imagine him smugly snapping his suspenders as an exclamation point to his posts
Re: Chemistry needs some changes. - Marquesas - 11-23-2013
Except apparently when confronted with the opportunity of implementation, nobody has any ideas.
Re: Chemistry needs some changes. - Captain_Bravo - 11-23-2013
A new reagent that when injected into someone, makes them deaf. It reacts with PFD to form neutral water, so you can't make someone deaf and mute. The effect only lasts as long as that person has the reagent in their bloodstream, and it metabolizes quickly. Hello new sleepypen wonderdrug.
Re: Chemistry needs some changes. - Lavastage - 11-23-2013
Marquesas Wrote:Tell you what, if anyone comes up with an interesting (not overpowered, not pointless eye candy) effect below this post, I'll code it and give it to someone to port it.A new hallucinogen that is more subtle, and metabolizes somewhat fast, instead of just having DAT FUKKEN PIG attack you and rainbow screen filters, you would hear things like... bullet firings, cyalumine sabre hits, ETC. and see things pop up in chat like, "the emergency shuttle has been called, it will arrive in ten minutes" (possibly also have a countdown?) Fake radstorm warnings, fake messages of people shooting weapons and stuff (Pubbie jones fires the revolver at captain McGee!)
possibly make it so that slowly over time it will become more and more ridiculous until it becomes somewhat obvious that you are hallucinating, longer its inside you the more obvious it becomes.
(pubbie jones fires the cyalume sabre at captain McGee!)
Commence traitors using this to confuse witnesses.
