+- Goonstation Forums (https://forum.ss13.co)
+-- Forum: Discussion (https://forum.ss13.co/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Ideas & Suggestions (https://forum.ss13.co/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Thread: Changeling tweak idea (/showthread.php?tid=11805)
Pages:
1
2
RE: Changeling tweak idea - NateTheSquid - 03-27-2019
dont like changelings cause the neurotox recharges fast enough that they can kill or seriously disable anyone who wants to attack them. all this "theyre weak once discovered" is bullshit, they can transform and people are stupid even when told who their new identity is, and even then like i said neurotox takes them out too easily.
im also only talking about when they are discovered, which they often arent because they sting and kill everyone all round and its hard to notice unless you're one of the 15 people forced into their hivemind.
lings never die until the shuttle, or if they're idiots, they dont need buffs in any capacity
RE: Changeling tweak idea - TheMaskedMan2 - 03-27-2019
I'm actually arguing for nerfing neurotoxin and giving it a DNA cost in exchange for a few other options of attacking people and going about things. I would rather get attacked with a claw instead of stung for 2+ minutes and perma-killed. Allows a bit more counter-play. Currently changeling gameplay is stay very quiet, run around, find people alone -> sting them -> succ.
Actually, here's an idea, give Neurotoxin those nerfs to how spammable it is, but make the Arm-Claw the free ability. So now Changelings will have to transform and actually fight you to get a suck off and it gives them something to fight back with when caught. Perhaps also partial succ's could be a thing, so if a Changeling doesn't finish draining someone they get like, 1-2 points, maybe? I don't know. Since this would probably result in a lot more responses and people screaming. So ideally there would be less perma-killing and generally a more interesting experience?
Anyways the whole thing is getting massively off topic from the original suggestions, which in my opinion is barely even a buff and more just an option of mimicking people more, which I think is always fun.
Nerf Neurotoxin, Longer cooldown, DNA cost -> Make Arm-claw free instead. Optional: Potentially allow less DNA points to be gained from partial sucks since chances are they will be interrupted a lot more.
Ideal Result: Lings are no longer reliant on just solo'ing everyone with an instant brain damage stun and actually have to play and be clever unless they can afford the sting, and even then it can't be spammed nearly as much, they need to choose their targets.
Thoughts? Maybe? Horrible? Amazing?
RE: Changeling tweak idea - NateTheSquid - 03-27-2019
(03-27-2019, 03:58 PM)TheMaskedMan2 Wrote: Actually, here's an idea, give Neurotoxin those nerfs to how spammable it is, but make the Arm-Claw the free ability. So now Changelings will have to transform and actually fight you to get a suck off and it gives them something to fight back with when caught. Perhaps also partial succ's could be a thing, so if a Changeling doesn't finish draining someone they get like, 1-2 points, maybe? I don't know. Since this would probably result in a lot more responses and people screaming. So ideally there would be less perma-killing and generally a more interesting experience?
Anyways the whole thing is getting massively off topic from the original suggestions, which in my opinion is barely even a buff and more just an option of mimicking people more, which I think is always fun.
perfection
RE: Changeling tweak idea - Frank_Stein - 03-27-2019
Yeah, I think a free move that's kind of a powerful grab would be a nice replacement for the sting. Something that is better for overpowering someone weaker while neurosting is for someone that you have to worry more about fighting back.
Maybe it crushes their throat a bit, making it harder for them to call for help and weakening their stamina, but not knocking them out
RE: Changeling tweak idea - TheMaskedMan2 - 03-27-2019
I thought about this some more, so in addition to the ideas the original poster had, which i'm still a fan of, and thinking more about neurotoxin, I have a few ideas in addition to the ones I had and have decided to clarify further my thoughts.
+Primary Suggestion+
-> Neurotoxin now costs DNA points. I'm thinking 4-6. Otherwise it's unchanged. This will require lings to save Neurotoxin for strategic targets, instead of just spamming it everytime its off cooldown on anyone within range. Neurotoxin will still exist, it will still be used, it should just no longer be spammed on every baldie in the hallway just for walking past them.
-> In exchange, Arm Claw (Not the tendril) is now free, this is now the Lings "Basic" self defense ability instead of sting. A claw arm+acid spit is more than enough to solo someone you lured into maintenance, but not robust enough to take on the rest of the crew, obviously. Changelings will have to be clever still. It also is a bit more engaging for the victim to actually fight someone, and gives some body horror spooks.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
+Maybe?+
-> (Not as needed, debatable.) Potentially, a way to get (Less) DNA points, but it doesn't require a full kill. With this Changeling being "Slightly" more loud, (Which is a good thing, it involves more of the crew and will force the player to change identities more, wash clothes, and generally do more things. More fun for everyone, the problem atm is ling is too stealthy and they can kill 80% of the crew before anyone even realizes there was an antag.) They may not always be able to get a full succ off, so an option could be nice.
I'm thinking an ability could be a sorta... bite, or gnaw, or chomp. "Bob Jones' face splits open into a serrated jaw and bites down on Sally Smithers neck!" A quick little ability that does damage, silences their voice so they can't use a radio for 30 seconds, and gives them 2-3 DNA. You can't harvest DNA points from the same victim more than once every 5 minutes, to prevent "Farming".
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Ideal Result: Changeling is now slightly more loud and has to be clever about it's targets and what it does, less it be caught early. Changeling is slightly more robust in single combat if it's sting is on cooldown. Peoples experience with Changeling should be less "Some dude was walking past silently stinging everyone every minute and I got perma-killed in maint" and more "Someone actually has to talk and have a slight brain, neurotoxin sting is for strategic targets, not every baldie in the hall."
The goal of Antagonists is to create a fun round, at the moment, Changelings tend to just be unknown to the round as a whole, and the people they do interact with are limited to being perma-stunned and then perma-killed. I think these changes are simple enough little tweaks, but will have a resounding effect on the feel of the gamemode as a whole. Ideally for the better.
Tl;dr - Make arm claw free, give neuro a dna cost = lings have to be slightly more clever + less salt + cool points for body horror
Edit: I should maybe make this it's own suggestion instead of hijacking this thread, but I figure it's about "Changeling Tweaks". Still agree with the original suggestion though as well, and would appreciate them.
I'm no longer hijacking this Thread and made my own. https://forum.ss13.co/showthread.php?tid=11860