add the tg anon3 amendment for ban appeals

add the tg anon3 amendment for ban appeals - Printable Version

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add the tg anon3 amendment for ban appeals - fosstar - 07-28-2016

Quick explanation:the anon3 amendment would allow more players to assist on the ban appeal process, this covers this:
"Rule 3 says no metagaming, not no greifing"

"These admins have always allowed floorpilling"

"you posted in 4chan bragging about metacomming with shittymcgreifier"

This does not cover:

"This happened to me once and I didn't get banned for it" or the reverse "This happened to me once and I got banned for it."

"My opinion is…" or "I feel like…"

see here for more details:tg ban appeal rules

arguments for this:

it would allow competent players who know the rules to help with the ban appeal process.

it would allow players to point to a rule, precedent, or piece of evidence that was missed by the poster or admins

arguments against this:

it could lead to shitposting

it could cause cluttered ban appeal threads

now, you decide, is this a good idea?

RE: add the tg anon3 amendment for ban appeals - Noah Buttes - 07-29-2016

There are some very good reasons peanut posting is forbidden.

RE: add the tg anon3 amendment for ban appeals - Gannets - 07-29-2016

I really don't see the point of this.

We don't get that many appeals, the appeals we do get are usually dealt with fairly quickly and usually only require an apology and the banned player telling us they won't do the bad thing again.

I'm not sure what a player that wasn't directly involved in the ban would have to add to that.

RE: add the tg anon3 amendment for ban appeals - Vitatroll - 07-29-2016

Our admins are pretty damned responsible. I'm proud of em' actually; it's a huge change from the past and the status quo in general.

There's no need for us to interject and try to make banappeals a popularity contest. If the rules are broken they're broken. If they aren't they aren't.

RE: add the tg anon3 amendment for ban appeals - fosstar - 07-29-2016

(07-29-2016, 09:06 AM)Vitatroll Wrote: Our admins are pretty damned responsible. I'm proud of em' actually; it's a huge change from the past and the status quo in general.

There's no need for us to interject and try to make banappeals a popularity contest. If the rules are broken they're broken. If they aren't they aren't.

let me quote myself

Quote:This does not cover:

"This happened to me once and I didn't get banned for it" or the reverse "This happened to me once and I got banned for it."

"My opinion is…" or "I feel like…"

this would NOT make ban appeals a popularity contest, it would simply allow players to point out evidence or precedents, now here is a example

shittymcgreifer appeals his metacomm ban, nicemcgoodplayer points out he bragged on 4chan about metacomming and links to it, appeal denied we kicked a shitty player out, YAY!

RE: add the tg anon3 amendment for ban appeals - Erik - 07-29-2016

I don't see how this would be a good thing, if you have valuable input about a specific ban appeal just contact one of the admins.

RE: add the tg anon3 amendment for ban appeals - Grek - 07-29-2016

Just PM the admins if you find something like that.

RE: add the tg anon3 amendment for ban appeals - fosstar - 07-29-2016

(07-29-2016, 08:21 AM)Gannets Wrote: I really don't see the point of this.

We don't get that many appeals, the appeals we do get are usually dealt with fairly quickly and usually only require an apology and the banned player telling us they won't do the bad thing again.

I'm not sure what a player that wasn't directly involved in the ban would have to add to that.

evidence, precedents, or a rule or policy decision.

here is a example of a good anon3 post

Quote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it not so much "only antagonists can use lube" as "only antagonists can be massive dicks and fuck up large areas of the station and render them impassible"?
Or more closely "antagonists are allowed to be bigger dicks than nonantags, lubegrenading an entire hallway is being a big dick"

Asking "hey guys where is the line drawn for me to meta that someone's an antag and validkill them" is a garbage attitude though

also, grek, eric, i believe the anon3 amendment would improve the ban appeal process by allowing limited player input, not shitposting or peanut gallerying, this rule would allow this "you are forgetting that the admins have always allowed floorpilling." NOT this "lol he shite keap benned"

RE: add the tg anon3 amendment for ban appeals - atomic1fire - 07-29-2016

I'm generally kind of opposed to players posting in a ban appeal unless they're involved in the ban in the first place. Like If I've ever peanut posted it was probably a long time ago. Generally there's not really a reason to post in someone's ban, and I can't keep track of player names and usernames to begin with so I could never tell if I was involved in a ban.

>"you posted in 4chan bragging about metacomming with shittymcgreifier"

Short of another admin from a different server saying it, I don't think comments made elsewhere should factor in on a ban appeal unless the person has a large ban list on goonstation in the first place imho. That used to be a rule on goonstation (I dunno if it still is) and I'm fairly certain the goon admins don't care what you do outside goonstation for the most part.

Of course I'm just a scrub that likes to read the interesting bans.

RE: add the tg anon3 amendment for ban appeals - fosstar - 07-29-2016

(07-29-2016, 12:26 PM)atomic1fire Wrote: I'm generally kind of opposed to players posting in a ban appeal unless they're involved in the ban in the first place.

>"you posted in 4chan bragging about metacomming with shittymcgreifier"

Short of another admin from a different server saying it, I don't think comments made elsewhere should factor in on a ban appeal unless the person has a large ban list on goonstation in the first place imho.

i meant in goon. as in you posted in 4chan bragging about metacomming with shittymcgreifier on goon

RE: add the tg anon3 amendment for ban appeals - Vitatroll - 07-29-2016

(07-29-2016, 11:47 AM)fosstarreagan Wrote: this would NOT make ban appeals a popularity contest, it would simply allow players to point out evidence or precedents, now here is a example

shittymcgreifer appeals his metacomm ban, nicemcgoodplayer points out he bragged on 4chan about metacomming and links to it, appeal denied we kicked a shitty player out, YAY!

I said 'try to make'. Your intentions may differ, be the results will be the same. People will try and soften the blow for people they like and harden it for people they dislike. Our observations are subjective and worth less than shit in general. If you have evidence of wrongdoing, which is basically limited to a screenshot or video because our logs are nigh-worthless, then you can still pm that to an admin. There's no need to clutter the appeals.

RE: add the tg anon3 amendment for ban appeals - Gannets - 07-29-2016

(07-29-2016, 12:00 PM)fosstarreagan Wrote: evidence, precedents, or a rule or policy decision.

Admins already have full access to the game logs and often make local copies of logs related to permabans, so I don't think we really need additional evidence. Besides, players are already welcome to post if they were involved in a ban, they can say their piece that way.

We don't really have precedents, all the rules are set out clearly on the recently rewritten rules page of the wiki. If there's anything missing from that, you're welcome to call it to attention to the page can be edited to include it. Having unwritten rules doesn't help anyone.

If someone feels like our policy needs to be discussed, there are better places to do that than the ban appeals subforum. The general discussion subforum, #goonstation irc or admin pm's for example.

I think this thread still applies and I don't see why it should change now.

RE: add the tg anon3 amendment for ban appeals - fosstar - 07-29-2016

(07-29-2016, 12:56 PM)Gannets Wrote:
(07-29-2016, 12:00 PM)fosstarreagan Wrote: evidence, precedents, or a rule or policy decision.

Admins already have full access to the game logs and often make local copies of logs related to permabans, so I don't think we really need additional evidence. Besides, players are already welcome to post if they were involved in a ban, they can say their piece that way.

We don't really have precedents, all the rules are set out clearly on the recently rewritten rules page of the wiki. If there's anything missing from that, you're welcome to call it to attention to the page can be edited to include it. Having unwritten rules doesn't help anyone.

If someone feels like our policy needs to be discussed, there are better places to do that than the ban appeals subforum. The general discussion subforum, #goonstation irc or admin pm's for example.

I think this thread still applies and I don't see why it should change now.

yeah, good point gannets

RE: add the tg anon3 amendment for ban appeals - TheNewTeddy - 07-29-2016

despite all the times I've wanted to peanut post, allowing it would bring more negatives than positives.

RE: add the tg anon3 amendment for ban appeals - Frank_Stein - 07-29-2016

(07-29-2016, 11:56 AM)Grek Wrote: Just PM the admins if you find something like that.

There was this one ban appeal where I thought there was something relevant worth pointing out even though I wasn't involved, and I tried this and found out there's a lot of admins that have pm's deactivated.

I kinda think it might be worth allowing comments on ban appeals, but maybe have them all require approval before actually appearing in the thread, with the caveat that wasting admin time with bad posts still be a punishable thing