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+--- Thread: What should be done about random engines (/showthread.php?tid=22814)
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What should be done about random engines - Ikea - 06-11-2024
I don't really have many thoughts on the matter but it seems like other people do. So this is the thread to chat all about them, should they be removed, kept, changed, etc.
RE: What should be done about random engines - Fuppy - 06-11-2024
I'm not entirely against the premise, but cog1's singulo is intensely scuffed and unfun to work with for various reasons. I wouldn't mind at the very least it be taken out in the meantime considering its many flaws without much upside. I'm okay with the nuclear engine being on rotation in cog, although I don't understand its ins and outs well enough to comment beyond that the layout seems fine to me.
RE: What should be done about random engines - Zamujasa - 06-11-2024
doesn't cog1 also occasionally have the choose-your-engine setup? that could be kinda fun.
the singularity on cog1 is kinda boring and you can just get the components to set it up from cargo -- the nuke and teg you very much can't. so at least on that front i'd be okay with making the singulo not show up there. it's not terribly exciting either
RE: What should be done about random engines - Azurnite - 06-11-2024
(06-11-2024, 06:33 PM)Zamujasa Wrote: doesn't cog1 also occasionally have the choose-your-engine setup? that could be kinda fun.
It's like a 1% chance for the "Choose-Your-Own-Adventure-Engine."
Random is a mixed bag for me, it provides variety but at the same time I like working more on particular engines over others.
RE: What should be done about random engines - Lord_earthfire - 06-11-2024
I like that each engine provide its own little challenge. Like cog1 singularity is really space constructed, so to pump up the power you got to jump through some hoops.
I feel like random engines are fine as-is.
RE: What should be done about random engines - BatElite - 06-12-2024
I don't find the random engines to be all that engaging. Cog1's engineering layout is still very clearly build around the idea of a TEG being in the middle. The RMBK connects to the existing pipe networks in a confusing manner to the point that I don't get what the intent is. The singularity just doesn't interact with any of it and tends to glow up gas storage with canisters its pulling. (Though I do have a soft spot for putting a singulo sorta close to where it might become the crew's problem.)
Also architecturally, the TEG core has something going for it still that others don't.
Also, random engines can't support the best engine of all: hotspot stacking.
RE: What should be done about random engines - Glamurio - 06-12-2024
I quite like random engines, though I'd prefer the "choose your own engine" approach we had solidly for a bit. As opposed to many other jobs, engineers often have to make the additional choice of "do I want to play this engine" vs. "do I want to play this map". By mixing up engines, it gives the department a bit more control about the way they want to play, which is standard for all other departments.
RE: What should be done about random engines - Soleil - 06-12-2024
I'll be honest, I can't think of any downsides for just making it Choose Your Own Engine for all maps. Sometimes you really want to test a TEG setup, or mess with the nuclear engine, but you're kind of forced to wait for them to show up. Not particularly fun.
RE: What should be done about random engines - Kotlol - 06-12-2024
(06-12-2024, 04:06 AM)Soleil Wrote: I'll be honest, I can't think of any downsides for just making it Choose Your Own Engine for all maps. Sometimes you really want to test a TEG setup, or mess with the nuclear engine, but you're kind of forced to wait for them to show up. Not particularly fun.
Some maps do not work with all engines.
But I think we should have 1/2 maps have "Chose your own engine" and the rest who's map mechanics are based on that engine. (Donut 3, Oshan, Nadir) should remain that way.
The rest can be random engines.
RE: What should be done about random engines - Emimiyu - 06-12-2024
I wish for more chance of pick your own engine. I am not a fan of not knowing the engine before joining in. If I know the engine of the map isn't the one I want to interact with, I can opt out from engie on pop when I assume there would be less engineer. Sometimes, some player want to mess around with a specific engine, but they had to pray the rng give them the engine they really want. Also, eh, maybe a bit out of the reach, but I don't really like the idea of making other maps outside cog1 also having the same "random engine mechanic". I feel like it kinda make the map less unique.
Like BatElite said, some engine are like that because the map design choice. I would find it weirdly empty for example if donut 3 has option to be nuclear fission engine. Maybe I am biased cause I really like TEG and not a fan of the nuclear fission engine.
RE: What should be done about random engines - Meggal Bozale - 06-12-2024
I never really understood why pick-your-own-engine was basically 'scrapped', out of all the possibilities it made the most sense. You should be able to enjoy playing any map, and not just avoid/choose Donut 3 every time because it has a singularity engine. Especially for highpop maps, the engine should be player choice, not game choice.
Speaking of, I do think it needs a bit of a vote system included if it doesn't have one already. I wouldn't know, of course, because I've seen its UI once months ago and have no real recollection of the experience of it being used -- a 1% chance is rather slim!
This just feels like one of those things that should always have been player choice. Engine type dictates whether or not a player in engineering will actually feel like contributing to the engine that shift, and I don't think leaving that up to chance is fair for those who enjoy particular engine types.
RE: What should be done about random engines - JOELED - 06-12-2024
I'm not a huge fan of the random engine on cog1, but I also don't like the "choose your own engine" terminal in its current state so would recommend it be adjusted somehow like romayne said if it's to become more common. The one time I saw it in round it ended up just being the guy who spawned in the engine room immediately hitting the engine he wanted and everyone else going well okay I guess it's a singulo now lol.
My main problem with the random engine stems from the fact I've seen many other people say they won't roll engi on cog1 because they don't like not knowing what engine it'll be, and it does feel like I end up being the solo engi on there way more than maps where people can know in advance. Instead of the choose your own engine terminal becoming more common, I would prefer the current engine to be visible in the top right section where it says the map we're playing on so people can choose to roll engi or not with that knowledge. I'm really not sure how feasible that would be from the code side of things, but it was discussed last year as an option so wanted to bring it up again.
RE: What should be done about random engines - JOELED - 06-12-2024
Coming back to this because continued discussion of it in the discord (and being stuck in a car ride for three hours) has inspired me. I feel strongly that replacing random engine with the choose your own engine will do very little at best towards solving issues people have with the random engine setup. You still don't know what engine it's going to be before you go in, it's just now that decision is at the whims of your coworkers instead of random chance -- something that will definitely cause in-round friction and irritation between engineering staff because as opposed to a map vote where it's anonymous by virtue of scale, you're working with a voting process of like 3 engineers and a CE so everyone will be decently certain of who picked the engine you didn't want lol. It's not going to solve people who don't feel comfortable queueing for a map whose engine they don't know, and it's not going to solve people who feel that the current random engine prefabs don't measure up to the dedicated maps engines to a degree that makes it unplayable for them. I just don't see what it would solve IRT random engines, and frankly don't like how weirdly out of place gameplaywise it is even if it was somehow tied into the ABCU or something. I dislike cog1s random engine, but I dislike it being replaced with an increased chance of the engine choice more.
RE: What should be done about random engines - Zamujasa - 06-12-2024
including all engines on all maps is not anywhere in the realm of possibility; the cog 1 engine situation is enough evidence of this
every engine needs its own setup, supporting items, and equipment; the cog1 setup is afaik special because people love voting for cog1 and it meant the new (nuclear) engine type wasn't getting a lot of daylight
but for example
singularity:
- collectors
- large square area for the singularity itself
- nothing of value interaction wise other than "feed it crap"
- can be built entirely from cargo crates
nuclear:
- requires enough space for the reactor, turbine
- requires entire atmos setup
- extra space for manufacturers and other related equipment
teg:
- requires atmos setup
- requires space for a combustion chamber / cooling loops
trying to fit all three of these into the same, reusable space is nigh impossible, and it's why cog 1's nuke engine is weird and why the singularity kinda sucks
RE: What should be done about random engines - Lefinch - 06-12-2024
(06-12-2024, 02:02 AM)Glamurio Wrote: I quite like random engines, though I'd prefer the "choose your own engine" approach we had solidly for a bit. As opposed to many other jobs, engineers often have to make the additional choice of "do I want to play this engine" vs. "do I want to play this map". By mixing up engines, it gives the department a bit more control about the way they want to play, which is standard for all other departments.
I'm pretty much on par with this: I like the conceptual idea of Engine-In-A-Box. I will however play devil's advocate for singularity on cog1: Accidents are funny, and singulos on cog1 have a high anecdotal opportunity for accidents. I get it can be frustrating, but sometimes people really do just blow up the station in a whoopsie and it's lead to some fun moments. One round that's high on my list of favourites is this exact scenario happening, and the station deciding engineering was now a "local home-grown organically farmed situation" Cargo ordered a ton of local generators. Botany insisted on hamster wheel power for extra green points, fun was had.
but maybe this is the compromise if people aren't a fan: Let the CE/Engine team decide what they'd like to work with. I wouldn't want to get rid of it entirely, it just adds a little extra potential fun.