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+--- Thread: Allow Traitors to Choose the Poison Bottle They Get (& Maybe Nerf Them to Compensate) (/showthread.php?tid=21232)
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Allow Traitors to Choose the Poison Bottle They Get (& Maybe Nerf Them to Compensate) - Snowy :D - 05-17-2023
There are a variety of chemicals that you can receive whenever you purchase a poison bottle. Each has its own uses: some penetrate skin, some are less obvious than others, some incapacitate you, and some outright kill you.
However, if you are looking for a specific use, then you’re out of luck because the poison you get is completely random.
Additionally, many of the chemicals that you can find in poison bottles can ONLY be found in poison bottles. If you’re lucky, the poison you want might have a secret chem recipe or be able to be extracted from a specific food.
If antags are given the ability to choose the chemical they receive from poison bottles, then it may make the item much more fun and versatile to use.
Of course, I’d imagine that some poisons (such as prions) may be a bit broken if any traitor scientist or doctor is easily able to purchase them for only 1 tc. Because of this, I would understand if poison bottles (or at least the stronger ones) have their tc cost raised or are nerfed in some way.
RE: Allow Traitors to Choose the Poison Bottle They Get (& Maybe Nerf Them to Compensate) - Lord_earthfire - 05-17-2023
to be honest, poison bottles only purpose is having a shortcut for deadly poisons. If you got time and go for a gimmick (and thus need a very special poison), you can easily enough aquire it by doing the recipe.
So, gunning for a very certain poison is not really their purpose. They give you a bottle full of poison you know ~7u will kill/take out a person and give it out fast. That's perfect for a reload with a syringe gun or if you want to poison random people in the bar. In my opinion increasing their cost and make you able to pick the poison you want would kinda make them less usefull in general.
RE: Allow Traitors to Choose the Poison Bottle They Get (& Maybe Nerf Them to Compensate) - Snowy :D - 05-17-2023
(05-17-2023, 11:21 AM)Lord_earthfire Wrote: to be honest, poison bottles only purpose is having a shortcut for deadly poisons. If you got time and go for a gimmick (and thus need a very special poison), you can easily enough aquire it by doing the recipe.The 1tc random poison should still be a thing. Sometimes it doesn’t matter what kind of poison you get. I just think that the option to choose which poison you want to use would make the item more fun to use. The randomness of the current poison bottle doesn’t make the item bad, but it causes a lot of interesting chemicals to rarely be utilized.
So, gunning for a very certain poison is not really their purpose. They give you a bottle full of poison poison you know ~7u will kill/take out a person and give it out fast. That's perfect for a reload with a syringe gun or if you want to poison random people in the bar. In my opinion increasing their cost and make you able to pick the poison you want would kinda make them less usefull in general.
Also, crafting a specific poison on your own isn’t always easy. A large portion of poison bottles can’t be obtained though any other means and many of the ones that can require a secret recipe, which isn’t something that anyone can easily know or look up.
RE: Allow Traitors to Choose the Poison Bottle They Get (& Maybe Nerf Them to Compensate) - Grutradle - 05-17-2023
(05-17-2023, 12:13 PM)Snowy Wrote:(05-17-2023, 11:21 AM)Lord_earthfire Wrote: to be honest, poison bottles only purpose is having a shortcut for deadly poisons. If you got time and go for a gimmick (and thus need a very special poison), you can easily enough aquire it by doing the recipe.
So, gunning for a very certain poison is not really their purpose. They give you a bottle full of poison poison you know ~7u will kill/take out a person and give it out fast. That's perfect for a reload with a syringe gun or if you want to poison random people in the bar. In my opinion increasing their cost and make you able to pick the poison you want would kinda make them less usefull in general.
crafting a specific poison on your own isn’t always easy. A large portion of poison bottles can’t be obtained though any other means and many of the ones that can require a secret recipe, which isn’t something that anyone can easily know or look up.
90% of the poisons you can roll are unobtainable via crafting(for a good reason), are secret chems outright, and/or need to be sourced via artifacts or poison bottles.
i would HATE to see curare and Royal Introbeetril be more common place poisons on the station.
I only use them to do two specific things, pen someone with one, or poison the cloner.
they're for people who if they get lucky can make people die very fast, deleting sections of the crew all by a simple pen, scalpel, or by just adding it to anything.
RE: Allow Traitors to Choose the Poison Bottle They Get (& Maybe Nerf Them to Compensate) - Snowy :D - 05-17-2023
(05-17-2023, 02:32 PM)Grutradle Wrote:I’m not too fond of the idea of RNG being used to nerf an item like this. If a poison is too strong then make it weaker or more expensive to use. That’s what I was suggesting at the end of my original post.(05-17-2023, 12:13 PM)Snowy Wrote:(05-17-2023, 11:21 AM)Lord_earthfire Wrote: to be honest, poison bottles only purpose is having a shortcut for deadly poisons. If you got time and go for a gimmick (and thus need a very special poison), you can easily enough aquire it by doing the recipe.
So, gunning for a very certain poison is not really their purpose. They give you a bottle full of poison poison you know ~7u will kill/take out a person and give it out fast. That's perfect for a reload with a syringe gun or if you want to poison random people in the bar. In my opinion increasing their cost and make you able to pick the poison you want would kinda make them less usefull in general.
crafting a specific poison on your own isn’t always easy. A large portion of poison bottles can’t be obtained though any other means and many of the ones that can require a secret recipe, which isn’t something that anyone can easily know or look up.
90% of the poisons you can roll are unobtainable via crafting(for a good reason), are secret chems outright, and/or need to be sourced via artifacts or poison bottles.
i would HATE to see curare and Royal Introbeetril be more common place poisons on the station.
I only use them to do two specific things, pen someone with one, or poison the cloner.
they're for people who if they get lucky can make people die very fast, deleting sections of the crew all by a simple pen, scalpel, or by just adding it to anything.
RE: Allow Traitors to Choose the Poison Bottle They Get (& Maybe Nerf Them to Compensate) - Kotlol - 05-17-2023
We got a RNG item , it's called the surplus crate.
RE: Allow Traitors to Choose the Poison Bottle They Get (& Maybe Nerf Them to Compensate) - Snowy :D - 05-17-2023
(05-17-2023, 04:19 PM)Kotlol Wrote: We got a RNG item , it's called the surplus crate.
True, but most of the items that can be found in the crate can be obtained without luck (although there are a few crate-exclusive items that I wouldn’t mind being regular traitor items). Additionally, the RNG aspect isn’t used for the sake of balance, it’s simply for traitors who don’t know what they want to buy.
Giving an item RNG aspects is fine, but I don’t like it when an item is “nerfed” by giving it a rare chance to appear. The item isn’t any less broken, you don’t always have to work harder to get it, you just gotta be lucky.
Regardless, I think this conversation is starting to derail itself a bit. I’m not too sure on how to properly balance the different poisons, but surely there is a better way than making which poison you get completely random.
RE: Allow Traitors to Choose the Poison Bottle They Get (& Maybe Nerf Them to Compensate) - Lord_earthfire - 05-17-2023
The rng aspect us not directly meant as nerf.
I may repeat myself, but it is explicitely there so you cannot plan around which chem you get.
Because if you can choose the poison, there is no reason to go out and make the poisons anymore.
And now there is another group. The random superpoisons (gbs, heartworms, pure bacon grease, spider eggs, coniine). You are NOT meant to get them reliable. They are random loot (e.g. artifacts, snotty beans, odd cigarettes, poison bottles). You cannot nerf them since else they loose all reason to be normally unobtainable amd rng in the first place.
They are meant to be rng loot.
If we make you able to pick your poison from poison bottles, have to remove ~40% of what the bottles are able to roll out of the pool.
RE: Allow Traitors to Choose the Poison Bottle They Get (& Maybe Nerf Them to Compensate) - Snowy :D - 05-18-2023
(05-17-2023, 10:52 PM)Lord_earthfire Wrote: The rng aspect us not directly meant as nerf.I’ve said this before, but many of the poisons cannot be made. Being able to choose the poison wouldn’t remove the reason to make it because there never was one. The only circumstance that I could see this being an issue would be the secret chems, but there are still reasons why you would make those other than poison bottle RNG.
I may repeat myself, but it is explicitely there so you cannot plan around which chem you get.
Because if you can choose the poison, there is no reason to go out and make the poisons anymore.
And now there is another group. The random superpoisons (gbs, heartworms, pure bacon grease, spider eggs, coniine). You are NOT meant to get them reliable. They are random loot (e.g. artifacts, snotty beans, odd cigarettes, poison bottles). You cannot nerf them since else they loose all reason to be normally unobtainable amd rng in the first place.
They are meant to be rng loot.
If we make you able to pick your poison from poison bottles, have to remove ~40% of what the bottles are able to roll out of the pool.
I wouldn’t be upset if some of the more extreme poisons stayed exclusive to the random option. Although I still dislike the idea of only needing to be lucky to get them.
RE: Allow Traitors to Choose the Poison Bottle They Get (& Maybe Nerf Them to Compensate) - Dhaidburt - 05-18-2023
(05-17-2023, 10:52 PM)Lord_earthfire Wrote: They are meant to be rng loot.
If we make you able to pick your poison from poison bottles, have to remove ~40% of what the bottles are able to roll out of the pool.
That's probably the best compromise we could get outa this. Another item where you can choose a specific poison, but the "best rolls" are all locked behind the random bottle. Maybe include some weaker poisons to compensate... this'd be a rare item to pick, only if you want to capitalize on something already dangerous in the round like venom.
RE: Allow Traitors to Choose the Poison Bottle They Get (& Maybe Nerf Them to Compensate) - Snowy :D - 05-18-2023
(05-18-2023, 08:39 AM)Dhaidburt Wrote:With that in mind, which poisons do you think should stay behind the random rolls?(05-17-2023, 10:52 PM)Lord_earthfire Wrote: They are meant to be rng loot.
If we make you able to pick your poison from poison bottles, have to remove ~40% of what the bottles are able to roll out of the pool.
That's probably the best compromise we could get outa this. Another item where you can choose a specific poison, but the "best rolls" are all locked behind the random bottle. Maybe include some weaker poisons to compensate... this'd be a rare item to pick, only if you want to capitalize on something already dangerous in the round like venom.
Personally, I would say that most disease reagents with the exception of rat venom and maybe nanomachines should be left behind. Most seem to instantly gib you or stop your heart.
RE: Allow Traitors to Choose the Poison Bottle They Get (& Maybe Nerf Them to Compensate) - Kotlol - 05-18-2023
For poisons that have to stay RNG:
Anything that works as a gas or touch and will INSTANTLY KILL you without much notice.
Poisons that are fine to be approved:
Anything slow working and have to be consumed.
RE: Allow Traitors to Choose the Poison Bottle They Get (& Maybe Nerf Them to Compensate) - Snowy :D - 05-18-2023
Anything that works as a gas or touch? Do you mean chemicals that mix with smoke power and/or penetrate skin?
I haven’t played the game enough to know much about them but are they really that bad?
RE: Allow Traitors to Choose the Poison Bottle They Get (& Maybe Nerf Them to Compensate) - colossusqw - 05-18-2023
Honestly, i can see a choice item where you buy a "Poison Uplink" that comes with a specified amount of points, and can buy poison by the unit, the rarer/more powerful ones costing more per unit and thus not being obtainable in high amounts, while the more common poisons can be bought in great quantities.
For example: getting 200 poison points, and being able to buy 120 units of saxitoxin, or 10 units of initropidril, or maybe 5 units of initropidril and 60 of saxitoxin if you want a bit of both.
RE: Allow Traitors to Choose the Poison Bottle They Get (& Maybe Nerf Them to Compensate) - Snowy :D - 05-18-2023
(05-18-2023, 02:26 PM)colossusqw Wrote: Honestly, i can see a choice item where you buy a "Poison Uplink" that comes with a specified amount of points, and can buy poison by the unit, the rarer/more powerful ones costing more per unit and thus not being obtainable in high amounts, while the more common poisons can be bought in great quantities.
For example: getting 200 poison points, and being able to buy 120 units of saxitoxin, or 10 units of initropidril, or maybe 5 units of initropidril and 60 of saxitoxin if you want a bit of both.
I like that idea as well. That sounds like a better way to balance the poisons than just making the stronger ones cost more tc.