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+--- Thread: round type: reverse (/showthread.php?tid=1964)
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round type: reverse - Dauntasa - 12-22-2013
an NT operative managed to infiltrate syndicate headquarters and fuck with their computer system. the good news is that he managed to corrupt their mission records so that every operative sent out was sent to the same station, protecting the majority of NT assets from harm. the bad news is that the unlucky station is yours.
Everyone is a traitor except Sec, the detective, the HoP, and the Captain. At the start of the round, all non-traitors are assigned regular objectives. After five minutes, the syndicate realizes the fuck-up and everyone's objectives are replaced with "ensure that no security officers escape". Nobody can be assigned an objective to assassinate a security officer or the Captain initially. Because this was caused by an NT agent, Sec is told what is going on immediately and essentially get 5 minutes to prepare before shit gets real. They don't get any equivalent to a syndicate uplink but do get an ID card with armoury access in case there's no HoS, and a package containing medical supplies and lethal ammo for the riot guns. Sec's objective is to escape on the shuttle alive. The shuttle can be called as soon as 20 minutes have passed and will automatically be called at 50 minutes.
This is a lot like rev, I think, but with a few twists that make it not as bad as rev. First off, the ones who are outnumbered have some serious advantages to keep things even. They aren't affected by the first five minutes of chaos in which a number of their enemies will probably end up killing each other or wasting their crystals on items that won't be useful. They know what's going on immediately and have time to prepare as well as access to a lot of weapons. They know they can't trust anyone. They can try to make a stand, strike fast and take out as many people as they can in the confusion, steal a couple of traitor items and try to blend in, or just hide out and then make a dash for the shuttle when it comes. But on the other hand, they're up against a couple of dozen people who each get 10 crystals worth of traitor items and will be gunning for them after a 5 minute headstart. It won't be easy, but it should at least be interesting. This doesn't really work unless you've got a full server, so I'd say limit it to when the server has at least 30-40 people on and make it fairly rare even then.
also to keep people from getting suspicious you can still buy cloaks and mindslaves but they've been sabotaged or some shit and don't work
Re: round type: reverse - Marquesas - 12-22-2013
Pros:
- It's rev with the bad element removed (random, unconfirmed killings from both sides).
- It involves everyone with a clearly defined goal; thus it's fun for everyone.
- What is to stop the officers from going on a murder spree before the five minutes are up? Not necessarily bad, but it would generate much heat for the adminhelp channel. Also carries a tiny meta potential as people will inevitable yell "it's reverse" the moment they are arrested before the 5 minute mark.
- The whole "I'm traitor, you're traitor but we don't know" concept sounds great on paper, but it carries a large potential for meta. The way this will play out is most of the time is 40 people shuffling to find hidey-holes for their traitor item spawning and inevitably at least one person will stumble upon another, whom will either murder one another for the crystals (if they're Rickie Basinger or Sasha Page anyway), or form an alliance. Now we have two people who are traitors, most likely from the same department, the odds of which are quite small. Doesn't take a TOO experienced traitor to begin suspecting a reverse, he comes up with this crazy theory, shuffles around near his department, boom, the game is basically revealed 3 minutes before it was supposed to.
- The average peak population is roughly 60 people at round start. What does this mean for the four-manned security force, the HoS, the detective, the HoP and the Captain? That is 9 people, leaving the 51 remaining folks to be traitors. That is 510 telecrystals from the usual catalog. You'd have to disable a lot more than just cloaks and mindslaves (which, by the way, should only stop functioning at the 5 minutes mark). Items which are far too incompatible with this mode include the artbox, stimpacks (what in the name of fuck are you going to do with 10 unstunnable dudes) and pipebombs (for both sides' sakes). There are far too many, far too horrible combinations I can imagine, thus the loadout of security needs to scale with the amount of dudes against them - which is hard to keep from being overpowered, so some serious balance considerations are needed.
I *would* love to play this though.
Re: round type: reverse - Zadeon - 12-22-2013
Essentially it'll probably turn into a giant death match over telecrystals once a few people find out that EVERYONE is a traitor. Maybe make only a half of the station traitors?
Re: round type: reverse - Marquesas - 12-22-2013
Zadeon Wrote:Essentially it'll probably turn into a giant death match over telecrystals once a few people find out that EVERYONE is a traitor. Maybe make only a half of the station traitors?
Nah, once the five minutes are up, it's perfectly clear what team you're on. Thus these people would probably get banned rather quickly.
Re: round type: reverse - Klayboxx - 12-22-2013
Except once the round is old news no one will kill each other and instead go straight to security to murder them all right at the start of the round.
Re: round type: reverse - epicdwarf - 12-22-2013
Sec needs WAY more firepower if they are taking on the entire station. They should get flamethrowers with a good mix in them and RPGs along with the other stuff.
Re: round type: reverse - Shoddy - 12-22-2013
this round type sounds cool and all but with the amount of fucking the security force is going to have to go through (you'll have to force people to be on the force so it's not empty, and even then they will probably suicide or some shit)
they're going to need very serious aid, like, a surgery table, resevoirs of medical stuff, grenade launchers, lethal shotguns, extra rechargers, blast doors and extra reinforced walls.
This gamemode would be cool if it turned into a kind of siege, with a bunch of traitors standing outside of sec waiting for them to try something while security prepares nervously with their flashbang force and riot shotguns to take out 5 or 8 people at once.
but then again, there's always going to be the scientist who is like " 33 plasma 66 oxygen boom security is dead"
also the shuttle calling should be up to security, all members of sec should get shuttle access.
with the sheer amounts of traitors aboard taking away the C saber would be a good idea I think, because what's to stop every traitor from just going to security and slashing the windows down and insta win.
Re: round type: reverse - Cogwerks - 12-22-2013
I've run some custom bridge assault rounds before where the heads all had heavy weapons and knew *someone* was coming for the bridge, an assault team were preparing in secret off in the listening post to charge the bridge, and the neutral crew had no idea what was going on until one of the two sides angered them enough. Usually it ended up with the whole crew storming the courtroom trenches after paranoid guards gunned down the wrong person for wandering too closely to the bridge.
Made for some pretty damn fun rounds, this idea you've posted could potentially work out that way if set up right.
Re: round type: reverse - atomic1fire - 12-22-2013
It just means security has to get more tactical in holding off an assualt now.
They have a smoke gun, and tranq gun. Also the riot guns and the revolvers.
A good officer might be able to use the smoke gun for cover.
As for how good the idea is, that remains to be seen.
If the traitors blow up half the station and accidentally kill eachother that's less of a threat then someone barking out traitor orders to breach security with thermite and pipebombs and a big wall of angry traitor assistants.
Re: round type: reverse - Dauntasa - 12-22-2013
Marquesas Wrote:Cons:
- What is to stop the officers from going on a murder spree before the five minutes are up? Not necessarily bad, but it would generate much heat for the adminhelp channel. Also carries a tiny meta potential as people will inevitable yell "it's reverse" the moment they are arrested before the 5 minute mark.
- The whole "I'm traitor, you're traitor but we don't know" concept sounds great on paper, but it carries a large potential for meta. The way this will play out is most of the time is 40 people shuffling to find hidey-holes for their traitor item spawning and inevitably at least one person will stumble upon another, whom will either murder one another for the crystals (if they're Rickie Basinger or Sasha Page anyway), or form an alliance. Now we have two people who are traitors, most likely from the same department, the odds of which are quite small. Doesn't take a TOO experienced traitor to begin suspecting a reverse, he comes up with this crazy theory, shuffles around near his department, boom, the game is basically revealed 3 minutes before it was supposed to.
- The average peak population is roughly 60 people at round start. What does this mean for the four-manned security force, the HoS, the detective, the HoP and the Captain? That is 9 people, leaving the 51 remaining folks to be traitors. That is 510 telecrystals from the usual catalog. You'd have to disable a lot more than just cloaks and mindslaves (which, by the way, should only stop functioning at the 5 minutes mark). Items which are far too incompatible with this mode include the artbox, stimpacks (what in the name of fuck are you going to do with 10 unstunnable dudes) and pipebombs (for both sides' sakes). There are far too many, far too horrible combinations I can imagine, thus the loadout of security needs to scale with the amount of dudes against them - which is hard to keep from being overpowered, so some serious balance considerations are needed.
For the first one, nothing, and it'd be a valid strategy for them to blindside as many enemies as they could with walls of shotgun fire before anyone figured out what was going on. However, in doing so they risk losing the element of surprise. Also, by yelling Reverse you immediately out yourself as a traitor, because the only way you could think it was reverse was if you were a traitor, so if you're wrong you've just fucked yourself pretty hard. The idea that the roundtype should be rarer than usual is for just that reason: If you roll traitor and go on the assumption that the round is reverse and immediately assault security, things will go poorly for you if you're wrong. And even if you're right, if you don't convince everyone else then you've just run into 9 heavily armed people who are expecting you. I think in practice the traitors would very rarely get organized before they're all told what's happening, and even then it would take them a while. There should be absolutely no penalties for accidentally killing people before you're told what's going on, since people fucking up and doing that is part of what keeps things fair.
I guess the artbox and bombs might have to be disabled, too. Buyable, but useless. Sec is outgunned enough that some of the several hundred crystals out there being spent on worthless items isn't going to swing things away from them much. Stims should be left in. That's what the tranq rifle and lethal shotguns are for. Only a few jobs can buy those and if the traitors are organized enough to set up a stunproof drugged-up assault squad they should be allowed to use it.
Maybe in high-population rounds sec should get a few Portable Flashers or stun mines to help with crowd control, but I don't think they should get a bunch of heavy weapons or anything. How about this: Give sec a tool that unlocks traitor PDAS, so they can get items from any that they manage to capture. I don't think anyone's gonna suicide as Sec either, since they're told right away that they're essentially the bad guy in a special roundtype. Maybe have Reverse Sec be an option to toggle on and off like Traitor, Changeling, etc. in the jobs menu.
Re: round type: reverse - Wydamn - 12-22-2013
This round type would work well if it had a very small chance of coming up in the secret rotation, maybe even less than mixed or spy. That way it will stay fresh and it will be hard to expect.
Re: round type: reverse - atomic1fire - 12-22-2013
I pretty much agree with dauntasa and wydamn right now.
Re: round type: reverse - QP Evergrande - 12-22-2013
I would be interested to see something like this. Maybe not an entirely new mode, but for one round the admins make everyone a traitor with non-assassination objectives, just as an experiment to see what would happen.
Re: round type: reverse - Dauntasa - 12-22-2013
there is one thing that I can't think of, though: what about people who late-join?
Re: round type: reverse - Zadeon - 12-22-2013
They could be either traitors that were sent in by the sydicates or sec guards sent in by nt. It should randomly pick which one you are put on.