increase the amount of time it takes for a headspider to take over

[brojob]

i was in a firefight with a ling, and killed them but i slipped on motor oil and their headspider had sprouted and climbed down my throat. it took not even 10 seconds for the ling to completely assume control of my body, and i had died. it really kills any kind of suspense of you having a foreign body inside of you due to the minuscule amount of time it takes for the ling to take over. i feel like it should at least take 30 seconds if not a minute.

[Musketman12]

This is the first time i've seen a post where it's suggested headspiders be nerfed, while there have been a bunch of posts to buff them. Headspiders are just as fine as they are, if you get caught by one you deserve it and they incredibly easy to deal with. It's already easy to just crush yourself with the spider inside you, i'm pretty sure it takes longer than 10 seconds.

[Ed Venture]

It used to take longer for them to take over. You used to have just enough time to get to med-bay and try and get surgery to get it removed. No idea why it was change. Maybe because most people who see someone get headspidered they would just throw you in the grinder instead of helping you.

[NateTheSquid]

it does not take 10 seconds, unless it's been radically changed.

if you manage to let a ling not only headspider but also let the headspider get you, you deserve it.

closest i ever got to getting headspidered was when a genetics ling got turned into a statue and the headspider popped out of it while i was laughing. i bashed it easily.

[Roomba]

If it is taking ten seconds and not thirty though, then that's a bug and should probably be fixed. If there isn't a period of time where the headspider could reasonably be surgically removed if someone nearby were quick on the draw, then there's no incentive to do that instead of just suiciding/crushing or walling up the headspidered guy. Which in turn gives people a significant disincentive to fight the ling, or just makes them go 'fuck it, killing a ling is suicidal anyway, bomb time', neither of which are very fun.

[Technature]

Of all the times I've dealt with headspiders, I was only ever hit with one, and the captain who was there at the time, due to not being able to do surgery quickly, murdered and cloned me before it could take over.

These things do NOT need to be nerfed.

[Dr Zoidcrab]

I don't think you're counting the time you spent on the floor after it knocked you unconcious. The only way to save yourself from a headspider is if you're in the operating room when it jumps you, otherwise you need someone else to drag you there or do ghetto surgery.

[Technature]

Hey, on a side note, if you're a borg, a headspider infects somebody, and they beg you to kill them knowing they're not gonna be able to get the surgery done, does it violate law one?

This actually happened to me and I wasn't 100% sure what to do.

I know it's not the best place to ask, but...I don't have a better place without making a thread?

[medsal15]

Hey, on a side note, if you're a borg, a headspider infects somebody, and they beg you to kill them knowing they're not gonna be able to get the surgery done, does it violate law one?

This actually happened to me and I wasn't 100% sure what to do.

I know it's not the best place to ask, but...I don't have a better place without making a thread?

You have to attempt to give surgery to the person. Gives the ling a chance, and gives the person a possibility to live longer.

[Ed Venture]

Hey, on a side note, if you're a borg, a headspider infects somebody, and they beg you to kill them knowing they're not gonna be able to get the surgery done, does it violate law one?

This actually happened to me and I wasn't 100% sure what to do.

I know it's not the best place to ask, but...I don't have a better place without making a thread?

I think you got to weigh out the possibilities. Which are, "Do I follow the law and try and save one human" or "Will trying to save this human result in other humans dying"

A borg should always kill non-humans and an argument could be made that once they get headspidered that they are no longer human at that point.

[Mordent]

I think you got to weigh out the possibilities. Which are, "Do I follow the law and try and save one human" or "Will trying to save this human result in other humans dying"

If a traitor tells you (a mediborg) to heal them (and they are still human) you are required to attempt to do so, even if they're still going to cause trouble the moment they're healed. Humans are humans. You get to prioritize, but you don't get to deny requests by humans to help them (assuming no other laws get in the way). I'm going to pre-emptively state that while Law 2 doesn't apply if it would contradict Law 1, you have no control over the actions of the human - if you're going with the "I cannot save you because you're going to harm humans, so Law 1 prevents me from doing it" logic, that really doesn't hold imo. If it did, you could stretch it well beyond that line ("AI, tell me where so-and-so is", "I can't because you might harm him").

A borg should always kill non-humans and an argument could be made that once they get headspidered that they are no longer human at that point.

I strongly disagree with the first part of that sentence, and would personally disagree with the second. They're human until the changeling takes control, and you can't prove definitively when that is.

[Ed Venture]

So are people who you see get headspidered human or not? Changelings are not human and we know headspiders are one of the ways used to turn someone into a changeling aka a non-human. All I am saying is there is an argument that can be made that they are not at that point. So unless people who throw headspidered people in the grinder start getting punished I will keep thinking this way. If a Non-Human is a threat to the humans then I don't think no one will be mad at a borg for choosing to be lethal or trap the non-human till others arrive.

Also it seems to take 10-30 seconds for a changeling to take over from what the people/mentors say in this thread. Might be a answer in the code as well. I'll make a effort to count next time I get headspidered and I'll report back.

[Mordent]

So are people who you see get headspidered human or not?

Based solely on my opinion and that of two other admins (my entire survey group), we believe they should be considered human for the purposes of AI laws. I would anticipate that they would not be able to keep up the charade long, and would additionally have no issue with the AI calling them out as having had a headspider crawl down their throat (to warn the crew), but they should not be pushing them into crushers/attacking them, and should follow their commands as if they were human.

So unless people who throw headspidered people in the grinder start getting punished I will keep thinking this way. If a Non-Human is a threat to the humans then I don't think no one will be mad at a borg for choosing to be lethal or trap the non-human till others arrive.

Humans throwing headspidered people into the crusher is conditionally okay (e.g. nowhere near somewhere where they can carve the headspider out), in the same way that humans defending themselves against attacks by humans is conditionally okay. Because something applies to human crew does not mean the same thing applies to silicons.

[NateTheSquid]

A borg should always kill non-humans and an argument could be made that once they get headspidered that they are no longer human at that point.

I strongly disagree with the first part of that sentence, and would personally disagree with the second. They're human until the changeling takes control, and you can't prove definitively when that is.

exactly! the synthetics have to continue assuming the headspidered person is human until the exact moment they see it do a non-human action.

and about the law junk, people who do that shit with law 1 are the worst. i've literally had to waste my entire traitor round kicking an AI's ass because it refused to open any doors because law 2 says "according to the chain of command" so if you didn't have access, it wouldn't open at all under any circumstances other than the captain/head of the area saying you can go in. we had 1 head (captain) and he was braindead literally all round.

funny that people are so meticulous about the laws until the exact moment they accidently break them, in which case suddenly they are just 'rough suggestions' or "thats not what that law means"

[Vitatroll]

Pretty sure it's been changed since this happened, but I once got taken over after being jumped in cloning. I was surrounded by very competent vets and they tried to take it out right away. This was on cog1, right before the transition to cog2.

As far as I'm concerned, the timer is there for you to find a way to die gloriously. I've only seen about 4 headspider removals. All but one were because they were in medbay, and happened to have vets around. Except one. One was somebody who choked out their fellow crewmember, tabled them, and cut it out with a piece of glass or something. That one deserved a medal.